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Welcome to the Sound Off Discussion Board, where parents from all walks of life and all parts of the world come together in one place to share their opinions and thoughts about the question of the week. Please remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion and the freedom to express it. Obscene posts are unwelcome and shall be removed from the board. Please keep in mind that this is a public board. Never post personal information that you would be uncomfortable sharing with others. Comments about this board should be sent to iParenting's Webmaster. Thank you for contributing! If you have a suggestion for the question of the week, send it to feedback@iparenting.com.

Was the exposure of Janet Jackson's right breast during the Super Bowl halftime show planned or an accident?

For archived topics, click here.

Marie~it was supposed to be on USA network...but I'm seeing tonite the cable guide isn't showing it at all. I don't get it. They have been advertising it for two weeks.

Oh well, if that is the biggest thing I have to worry about...I've got nothing to complain about. I'll probably just take a vicodin and go to bed.
Cherokee
Friday, February 13, 2004 at 21:37:04 (EST)
Cherokee-What station is that movie on? My due date is in another week and I have been so emotional the past couple of days,maybe it is not a good idea for me watch it,but I am curious.

Marie
Friday, February 13, 2004 at 19:46:47 (EST)
I don't have time to watch regular tv programs. :-( I DId follow my Big Fat Obnoxious Fiance for two weeks, then I got bored...and BUSY! Anyway, it was sooooo slow. Always dragging it on, hoping to drag viewers in ...I just can't.
Saraj
Friday, February 13, 2004 at 19:16:46 (EST)
I don't think I would have made Jenna's decision to go in the first place. Her mother was end stage and in the hospice care when she left. If my mom was that bad, no amount of money would have enticed me to leave here -- especially if I had already picked up a million once. I didn't think that Rupert or Alicia or Probst were any too hard on Jenna. Besides, it's been edited, so you don't know what else they may have had to say. And they were been openly honest about it. Not like her teammate, Colby, who just complained to the cameras in the background that it would hurt the team if she quit.

Nice to see you here, angela. You've been kind of quiet this week.


Ellie
Friday, February 13, 2004 at 18:47:49 (EST)
Uggh. Jessie whined! That's SO unattractive, and she probably lost of respect..Isn't she always the one saying, playing it cool, sit back and say as little as possible, and all that crap? Geez.
Cherokee
Friday, February 13, 2004 at 17:32:58 (EST)
Cherokee~~NOW it should be in your mailbox! :)

Jessie got fired. The one with the high pitched, annoying voice who always sounds like she is whining. When she knew she was about to get fired she started to beg! "Please don't fire me Mr. Trump." UGH! I don't know if I have it in my to beg like that~~actually it was more like grovelling. That really is a pretty good show~~you noticed it is produced by Mark Burnett? The same guy who produces Survivor.

Catch you all later. TC!
angela
Friday, February 13, 2004 at 17:31:10 (EST)
Is anyone going to watch "The Perfect Husband" tonight? It is about the Laci Peterson story starring hunkie Dean Cain. Think I may watch it. Laci and I were due at the same time and I remember when the whole thing happened, I was thinking, "OMG that could have been me missing a few short weeks before my baby was supposed to be born". We even sent money to the fund he was advertising. I cried my heart out when her poor body and her baby's body washed ashore. I don't know what stranger could ever have malice toward a pregnant woman, let alone a man who fathered the child she was carrying. It is just beyond comprehension.
Cherokee
Friday, February 13, 2004 at 17:31:10 (EST)
Ang~I did check - nothing there!

I missed the The Apprentice last night-Dh and I went to dinner..yummy. Dinner was good too Heeheehee)~Who got canned..please tell me it was The Skinny Mouthy Skank!! She is always so nasty and brags about being a b*&^*. Sheese. her parents must be proud. Anyhoo..tell me! That is my reality show of choice.
Cherokee
Friday, February 13, 2004 at 17:20:58 (EST)
Barb~We are diehard Survivor fans in our house! We watched the very first one with Richard Hatch a la "natural" all the time, and Susan with her obnoxious voice! :) So, of course we watched last night too. Honestly, if my mother was that sick, I never would have left home in the first place either! That was an opportunity to play the game that somebody else could have had. But, I was glad that she DID indeed get home in time to be with her mother when she passed. It WAS kind of emotional. THEN, we switched channels to our "other" favorite reality show, The Apprentice. Pretty mindless entertainment, but who cares? :)

Cherokee~~I e-mailed you! Check your mail! :)
angela
Friday, February 13, 2004 at 17:11:18 (EST)
HAPPY VALENTINE's DAY everyone! Any plans?

Here's a little heart day quiz a friend sent me.

-------
http://quizme.stvlive.com/valentine/quiz.php

I was a "HUG ME"
Saraj
Friday, February 13, 2004 at 15:15:45 (EST)
Sheese...I must be tired...Colby...LOL!
Saraj
Friday, February 13, 2004 at 15:10:41 (EST)

Yes, we had fun, and it was so great to get away. I was so relaxed and mellow when we got home, and it's lasting a long time! :-)

The first night we went to the Audobon Inn. It's an historic hotel...the owner's live there, it was BEAUTIFUL inside. Glass ornaments everywhere and a huge open staircase...wow. Then we had the cheese factory tour. It is a little place owned by one family for years and years...you walk in and you can see the cheese being made as you shop. They taught us about how TRUE brick cheese is made...With real bricks! And, how it sets to mold. Some is packed air tight and some is packed to get air...both ways produce completely different tastes. And they make real Colcy. When you buy Coly at the stores, it is actually just very light cheddar. But, at Widamen's, it's TRUE Colby. Then we were off to WIS. Dells and we stayed at one of the biggest waterparks in the U.S. We packed a cooler full of food so we saved a lot on not eating out too often. Hubby started having some chest pains after climbing the water slide steps so he went in today for a check up. The man is only 36 and his cholesterol is sky high. He goes in for a stress test early next week. I'm a little scared, but ofcourse, he isn't. Men.

My mom stayed with the dogs, and we came home to one returned puppy. :-( The new owner's father died so they couldn't keep the puppy. Ugh. Now we're growing attached to the stinker. But, I'll still try to find him a good home until I love him too much.


Saraj
Friday, February 13, 2004 at 15:09:13 (EST)
Thank you so much for the tips, Margarita and Kerri. I’m really excited because I’ve never been on the west coast before.

Did anyone see “Survivor” last night? It got a little dusty in my living room when I read that Jenna’s mom died eight days after she got home. I agree that I never would have gone on the show if my family member was in that situation, but I hated the way Alicia and Rupert, and even Probst for that matter, acted toward her about it.

Barb
Friday, February 13, 2004 at 14:08:57 (EST)
Man! I REALLY thought they would have changed the topic by now. Holy cow! Tired of hearing about janet's Boring Wayward Boob!

Well...it's out of my hands, then, I MUST go to the mall with the kids and go shopping LOL! I'm supposed to be taking it easy..but I actually, today I feel pretty darn good. In fact, I haven't taken any of the "narcs" (LH :0) since 2pm yesterday. DH and I went out to dinner and that was very nice (that was our Valentines' Day)I think he felt that I was really worried he was going to think less of me because this pregnancy didn't work out, and he made this whole speech about what a woman he thinks I am, and he is so proud of me that I have had this hard-ass job of being an EMT-firefighter for so long and how at the same time I'm such a nurturing mommy with the family..isn't that the just the sweetest? And all I could think about the whole time was how friggin' hungry I was and I wanted a steak. LMAO! :0) No kidding. Must have been the medicine..anyway...he finally stops talking and laughs and says "Am I keeping you from something? I'm trying to be soft here"...I was starving because I could not eat the day before because of the surgery and then didn't feel like it after the surgery, and then the next day I hardly ate all. It was funny. Maybe you just had to be there.

I think I'll load the babes up and head over to the mall, I'm going to buy myself a couple of new outfits for orientation next week, and Esai needs a birthday boy outfit for his party this Sunday, and of course I don't want Maddi to feel left out so maybe I'll get something for her..you get the picture...:0)I'll have to incorporate some sort of lesson into it, we totally blew off homeschool this week with everything that was going on..then again, maybe I should just call it "vacation" and not worry about it at all. Anyhoo, thanks again for the kind words ladies and I'll e-see ya later!
Cherokee
Friday, February 13, 2004 at 12:14:41 (EST)
Margarita-Oak Harbor, Wa.
Kerri
Friday, February 13, 2004 at 10:04:13 (EST)
Geez when are they going to change the discussion?

Cherokee I am so sorry for what you are going through. I have never had an ectopic pg before but I have experienced 4 m/c. My longest pg that ended in a m/c was 3 1/2 months. But I have a reason that I was having them. The risk is low for having another ectopic. My DD that is 10 weeks came after three m/c. Wow 5 children that is great!!! My health is not so good or else I would have that many. I think one more is all we can have. I have so much love that I want to share with more children. Even though I have two girls, I feel that my family is not yet complete. Do you know what I mean? Anyway what are the ages of your children?

Margarita I can't wait to see the movie The Passion. I am so anxious for it to come out. DH and I are going to see it on Easter Sunday. We have already got our tickets. I am so excited. I am bringing a box of kleenex though since just reading it in the Bible makes me cry. :)
How is DD doing?

Kristin Hi! How are DD and DS doing? Hope all is well with you all!


Well that is it for now. I am gong to head off to bed!
Wendy
Friday, February 13, 2004 at 02:22:13 (EST)
Cherokee...I was glad to read that you are back home and recouping...try to get alot of R & R and I hope you get to feeling stronger soon! (Till then we can be the "narc twins", LOL...I am usually on pain meds for my TMJ when I'm posting late at night like this..sometimes they make me wired, but anythings better than the pain!) Take care!!

Margarita...your surroundings sound lovely!! I would love to see a whale up close like that...beautiful creatures!! TC! :-)
LH
Friday, February 13, 2004 at 01:40:28 (EST)
*It's a small world playing in the background*

Kerri - you must have lived in the Bremerton area then?

Saraj - sounds like you guys had a good vacation.

Well, I am tired. I am going to go snuggle on the couch with dh and try to stay awake for ER.


Margarita
Friday, February 13, 2004 at 00:02:43 (EST)
Just wanted to say Hello. No time for post and have not read in over a week. Life is super busy this week. Hoping to post this weekend and read how everyone is doing.

Hugs to you all:) I will be back:)
Kristin
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 22:55:49 (EST)
Margarita-
I lived in Washington while my husband was in the Navy. I miss the beauty. My aunt and uncle live in Olympia also!
Kerri
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 22:17:56 (EST)
I have an aunt who lives in Seattle. :-)
Saraj
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 19:54:03 (EST)
barb, the hurrican ridge Kerri mentioned is located near Port Angeles. ;-)
Margarita
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 19:37:40 (EST)
Kerri, do you live here? I mean, is the Seattle area? Just curious ;-) to see how close you might be. I live near Olympia.
Margarita
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 19:36:41 (EST)
Saraj - I agree, no child should feel like they HAVE to say the Pledge of Allegience. I do not believe that it is mandatory anywhere anymore.

Barb - If your husband is interested in going fishing out on a charter boat (make sure to take some dramamine {sp?}) then you could visit Port Angeles or Westport. Port Angeles is by far more beautiful and would also be the place to go whale watching. It is located on the Penninsula - whales frequently are seen in the are as they are traveling to and fro the Canadian area. The San Juan Islands are also a great place to go whale watching, but a little more out of the way. To get to Port Angeles from Seattle, all you would need to do is catch a ferry from the Seattle pier to Port Townsend, and then drive about a half hour. I am not positive how long the ferry is, I think about an hour. Also near Port Angeles is Sequim, which has a great animal reserve that you can drive through. You will know you are close when you are driving through Sequim and you see a huge iron elk with a sign. If he wants to river fish, then you might want to head more my way, which is down west of Olympia. My husband and his dad are avid fisherman, however I do not know what is running in April. I think steelhead are always open though.
Most people in this are love to be outdoors, because there is so much to see and do outside here. Even those who don't like hiking, biking, skiing, kyaking, usually like to at least drive to places like Mt. Saint Helens and do the history museums there. The various festivals that are held in the Seattle area are also a big hit with residents, and I looked at the community page for the month of April, it looks like there is a popular festival the weekend of 16-18. It is the Cherry Blossom and Japanese Cultutal Festival. The Seattle Center is right below and around the Space Needle - you can't miss it ;). Also at the Seattle Center is the Experience Music music museum. It is a really weird looking building that you can see from the freeway, and is very popular with residents. The Seattle Aquaruim is right down town at the pier - not far from the market. It is so/so. The Woodland Park Zoo is in the area of University of Washington (the signs say "U district") and is ok - they have a lot of neat animals but the zoo itself is sorta old and small. Baby Hansa the elephant is there, however. She was named by the winner of a contest, a child. Hansa is about 2 and a half, maybe 3 and a huge draw to the zoo. If you really like zoos, you might rather drive down to Tacoma, which is about half hour south of Seattle, and go to the Point Defiance Zoo, it is really much larger with better environments for the animals.
Also, Seattle residents are huge baseball fans and it just so happens that the season opens in April... home games on 6,7,8,16,17,18-22. All at beautiful Safeco Field!!
There is a good ballet company here - and the building is right dowtown. There is also a nice art museum. There are several gorgeous parks around the Seattle are - Occidental, Gasworks, if you go up to the top of Capitol Hill (not a nice neighborhood) you can go to the Volunteer Park Conservatory, there is also Washington Park Arboretum... Green Lake Park, if the weather is nice you should head over to West Seattle and go to Alki Beach, boy I could just go on and on.
Oh, by the way, if you decide to go to Port Angeles, and you are going to stay in that area for a few days, look into the Lake Crescent Lodge. Our first lady stayed there last summer. There were some slides there this fall, I hope it hasn't comprimised it's beauty! There is also Kalaloch lodge, which is right on the Pacific Ocean on the other side of the penninsula, you could swing down that way as opposed to ferrying back to Seattle, and then drive around the penninsula back to Seattle, what we natives call "the loop". Lake Quinalt Lodge is also beautiful and there is good fishing on the lake, and you could get an tribal guide to take you fishing.... lots of possibilites, hope I broadened your agenda a bit.
Sorry, I don't know anything about the underground tour, I have heard of it, but never went on it. =(
Margarita
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 19:32:51 (EST)
Barb-you should look into taking the ferry to Whidbey Island for an overnight stay...or you can take another ferry to Victoria or Vancouver, Ca! Hurricaine Ridge is also beautiful right now! Tons to do in the Northwest! Lots of vinyards also! MMM!
Kerri
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 19:29:07 (EST)
Also, if my children went to public schools, I would be sure they were not forced to say the pledge if they did not want to.
Saraj
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 17:59:24 (EST)
Good afternoon ladies :-)

In response to some of the posts below...

I guess I'd like to say that I try to never judge anyone unless I really know who they are. All too often, people make an assumption based on looks, clothing, even the way someone smiles...or doesn't smile. I have noticed a common trend that "what comes around goes around"...if you feel good and happy, you generate that through to others even if you don't intend to (not that it's a bad thing)...and, if you feel crappy, tired, and angry at the world...that same feeling is generated through. I have had days where I felt like running away to a desolate area, alone, and in peace and quiet. And, there are days that I love everyone I see. I am sure I'm not alone. Ofcourse I have taken notice to people who are not as well off as my family and I ...but I would never call them trash.
I feel that everyone on earth it entitled to respect no matter what their income or beliefs are. I can't believe how some people are making such a huge deal on the Janet ordeal...someone even tried to file a lawsuit (COME ON!)...and why shouldn't gay and lesbian people be allowed to marry? That is just crazy. And why would anyone want the government to make any kind of important choice for them. It seems to me we are losing many freedoms. It scares me. We are losing freedoms to live as we wish and too many people are trying to control eachother's lives. It's like, well, you don't get me, so shoot me down. Sheese. As far as the swearing in restaurants and such...if I was in a situation where my family and I were eating somewhere and a bunch of kids were being loud and obnoxious and talking about sex, I would probably respectfully and politely ask them to refrain from the details until the kids and I left. If that didn't work, we'd stay sitting and just mention to our children about hormones, teens, and rebelling...maybe discuss how icky they sound and how hubby and I would hope they would never do that in a public restaurant. A lot of things can be learning experiences for all involved.


Saraj
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 17:38:49 (EST)
Margarita -- I meant to tell you that we'll be there in April, if that makes a difference.

Thanks again!

Barb
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 15:17:23 (EST)
Margarita – I’d like to see the ocean. Raleigh is the only place I’ve lived where I was within day-trip distance to the shore (and I’ve only been here a few years), so I’d love to go whale watching and do other ocean-related things while in Seattle (other than swim in it). Do you recommend any specific company or place for whale watching? And my hubby would love a morning on a fishing boat… any hot spots that you recommend?

We’ll definitely check out Pike Place Market. I like aquariums, museums, etc., but if you have any tips on things that are not so touristy, I’d like to see how the local people live. My husband likes history stuff… we already plan on taking the underground tour; is there anything else that’s really neat? What about ghost walks or anything kitschy like that?

Also, we thought we’d stay in Seattle a couple days, then go somewhere else for a few more days… what’s within driving distance that’s worth spending two or so days? I know I’m drilling you for info, so whatever you can give me, I’ll be grateful!

Thank you so much!

Barb
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 15:14:26 (EST)
Ellie - No I'm sorry I don't have any source materials.. I just saw it on the news last night.. again it was because of Janet making a BOOB outta herself.. and was laughing at some of the new bills they want to introduce.. none of which I can remember offhand.. I'm also not american.. and was curious as to how you think what you see and hear should be regulated.


Liisa
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 14:55:08 (EST)
yeah Ellie I guess you are right.

BTW..nice to see my penchant for spelling errors haven't been suppressed by narcotics either..LOL..I mean to say live in PEACE from that trash...not piece as in piece of trash which is what I was think when I listened to those kids. :0)
Cherokee
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 14:36:14 (EST)
See, Cherokee, you're already showing your spark! And I agree with your commentary on young people and the language they use in public. When I was that age I didn't know most of those words, and I certainly didn't use the ones that I did. Of course, I made up for that in college, but I still understood the bounds of appropriate public behavior. So much of the problem has to do with kids who are raised to know "their rights." They believe that they have the right to do and say anythng they choose whenever and wherever they choose. And most aren't mature enough to understand that with those "rights" comes the responsibility to behave in a civil manner.
Ellie
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 14:29:21 (EST)
As a parent, I think that is MY job..;)

I agree with Ellie, at some point the government needs to draw the line between invasion and protection. But...for example, when I am at the mall, I find it incredibly annoying when I am sitting at a table with my babes in the food court, and the table of young people next to us, who can CLEARLY SEE US sitting there with our little people, will talk such horrible language...and not just or F*You or something like that...stuff like "I f* a girl with the biggest ****the other night, she is a skank, ho, whatever" I feel like if the media and television didn't indoctrinate children from such a young age, that Fing someone and then calling them a ho, and using such foul language in the presence of young children was ok, our young teenagers today would not be so callous and indifferent to that. It shouldn't be that I have to move my table of children away from people who are inserting themselves in a family environment and talking like pigs, isn't there someplace those people can go? I know...anyone who wants to live dirty and ugly, should set up their own town...call it.. FOULSVILLE, and they can hook, dance topless, cheat on their partners, talk dirty and ugly and watch whatever they want. It will be a country unto itself, with no taxes (but no free healthcare and free cheese)and no employement or responsibilities. Then those of us who want to raise our children to respect themselves, to respect their neighbors, can live in piece from trash.
Cherokee
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 14:14:23 (EST)
Liisa -

Do you have any source material where I could read about these proposals? I'm not sure what the soecifics are right now. But common sense says there does have to come a day when the government stops protecting us from ourselves.

Ellie
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 13:40:52 (EST)
Was curious if anyone had any comments about the new 'laws' the US government wants to intoduce to 'protect' its citizens from scenes of nudity, foul language and violence?

Liisa
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 13:36:28 (EST)
Barb, I live near Seattle, my sister lives in West Seattle. Tell me what you are interested in, history, art, nature, music, and I will give you some ideas. Seattle is a great place - one thing you will have to do for sure is go to Pike Place Market. Another thing - there are great restaurants around the Pike Place neighborhood, and I recommend the Pink Door if you can get (and the weather permits) a reservation on the balcony.... mmmm good seafood, the mussels in wine sauce are a favorite of mine. There is good antique-ing, etc, whatever you are interested in. ;-)
Margarita
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 13:29:24 (EST)
I have a brother who still hasn't really outgrown that farting humor thing. Of all the people in the world to choose as a spouse, he married a woman whose daughters were trained to only pass gas in the bathroom. If it were passed anywhere else in the house, there were punishments attached to the offense. The two of them ended up with a daughter who is just like her daddy and never obeys the "house rule."
Ellie
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 13:28:53 (EST)
That is so funny Lyne!!! My kids are still very young so farting really isn't a big deal yet!
traci
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 13:22:44 (EST)
My oldest daughter, Angela, thinks farting is just the most disgusting thing ever, always has. Now my middle daughter thinks its great, and laughs quite loudly, when someone or herself * flactuates * haha Now my little boy thinks its gross, imagine that? He covers his mouth and makes gaging sounds. I would have thougt him, if any of my kids would think it was funny, surely not my daughter! haha I guess thats a sterotype boys have huh? lol
Lyne
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 13:19:44 (EST)
I believe the exposure was intentional. I also believe that all the continued publicity about it is doing excactly what Miss Jackson's intention was. The bigger your scandel is the more you are in the public eye and that is all that is important. Most children didn't even realize what happened until all the parents & media started carrying on about it. This would all be forgotten if it weren't for these "do-gooders" who feel it is necessary to police what everyone sees and does. When I was a child I was much more interested in things I was told I couldn't have. Most children are repulsed by anything sexual anyway & would just as soon ignore it. If people wouldn't make such a big deal out of all this Miss Jackson would already be forgotten since her career was nowhere anyway. Isn't it also convenient how she has managed to take the controversy away from her brother, who truly does deserve it.
JK
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 12:55:49 (EST)
Kerri~We don't have a babysitter on V-Day. I'm still feeling a little crappy, but DH and I are going out to dinner tonight to the Elephant Bar (do you have them in Illinois?)That is where I tried my first appletini~may have one tonight too..depends on if I take an pain meds :0) Don't want to get sloppy LOL! Anyway...Dh is taking tomorrow off, thought we would go out to dinner tonight and have some much needed alone time, and we will just celebrate that way. Sunday we are having my beautiful boys'(both of them)birthday party. I can't reschedule *again*, no one but dh and I (and all of you)knows about the pregnancy, and I really don't want to have explain it to everyone we invited, but if one of my SIL's says ONE thing about my "dried up uterus" again, I may kick her ass on the spot. (I'm kidding, I would have to say something tho):)

On the religion issue...that is one debate that will NEVER be settled...until Jesus comes back and settles it for us. :0) My gran used to say that to people when they were discussing religion. I thought it was funny. I usually am not big into evangelism. I *try* to demnstrate my faith by my actions. I'm not perfect, don't claim to be (I absolutely DETEST when I hear people say "Christians think they are perfect", so I try not illustrate that to people and prove them right.) I also have never thought people who are agnostic are immoral or don't have family values. I DO think it is easier to not behave or make good choices when you have no moral compass..be it your faith, or accountability to yourself, whichever. Also, I don't like it when people say that "Christians don't like atheists or agnostics". Simply not true. At least for this Christian. One of my closest friends is a non-believer. I still love her, her dh and her kids. Her kids watch Veggie Tales with mine, my kids watch secular videos with her kids... and we all co-exist peacefully, I respect her, her lack of faith, and she respects my faith, by not ridiculing it to me, and understanding my faith in God is part of what makes me, *me*. When she had cervical cancer, last year...she let me pray for her, with her. She knew it made ME feel better to do that for her, and I made HER feel better, by watching her kids and doing her laundry for her LOL. Whatever it takes.

I have to say, I've never ONCE had a cashier or sales associate say "bless you"...

The hospital I am working at is owned by Catholic Healthcare West. Fortunately I will NEVER EVER have to worry about seeing a patient in need and be afraid to say..."I can pray with you if you like". Any other hospital you could get canned or warned at the very least. It my hospital, it is ENCOURAGED. If a patient doesn't want it, than fine, so be it. And..I don't force my faith on anyone. It's just as stereotypical to assume all Christians are evangelists and trying to convert the world as it is to say all atheists/agnostics are hateful and immoral. It's just ignorant.
Cherokee
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 12:49:40 (EST)
This is the first Valentine's Day that we have a baby. My husband and I usually go out to dinner, so we'll bring her along.

I scheduled a hair appointment without realizing it was V-day, but that won't take too long. In the morning we're going to meet with a travel agent to plan our trip to Seattle (anyone want to pass along some fun things to do there?).

I bought my husband a pedicure! Really. I've been telling him for years that he should get one, but just recently he seemed a little interested, so I went with it. I got it at a spa-type place so that it's a little more private than a walk-in nail salon, and this place has a special men's pedicure on the menu. Plus, if he's weird about it, I can come with our daughter and just hang out in the room and chat with him. I hope he likes it!

Barb
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 12:48:33 (EST)
David: Speaking for myself only, I am irritated (as I said in an earlier post) when the minority is comprised of only one or two people, and whole traditions are done away with to accomodate one person. Schools no longer require mandatory participation in these traditions, so why is it such a big deal? The minority is free to either stay in the room and not participate, or leave the room. The constitution was written to ensure that everyone had the same opportunities; I don't believe it was written with the intent of being used as a weapon for some of the nitpicking it has been used for. Regardless, it was written and the language is what it is. I don't think it has done a great job protecting minorities, however. Look how long it took to make slavery illegal. I think there is a huge difference between making sure that everyone has the right to practice whichever religion they want to, and taking away the ability of the majority to observe their traditions in public.

That said, considering how the constitution is written, I think that the courts and school districts are really doing the prudent thing. I do agree with Wendy - I don't want my dd'd school teaching her about religion, or requiring her to pray, because it may not be what I want her to be taught. On the other hand, I don't think it is a bad thing for kids to be exposed to a wide array of beliefs, if you set a good example for them and they truly know the Lord, they will stay the course. I guess I would rather have no religion in schools than having the schools forced to enthusiastically support non-sectarianism.

Barb / Kerri: I think that Barb is right about people calling out to God on their deathbed because it is a crisis situation. Many people have come to know God through a crisis in their life. My view is that if they call out to Him out of desperation, they must have some belief in Him that they have been supressing or they wouldn't be trying to find comfort in Him. Why else would they want His forgiveness on their death bed?

Barb: Using "Satan blesses you" is a bit extreme, because Satan is evil. I think using Santa Clause or some other mythical figure would be more appropriate for what you meant, unless you truly beleive that God is evil, in which case OUCH...
The dictionary descibes agnostic as someone who a person who believes that the human mind cannot know whether there is a God or an ultimate cause, or anything beyond material phenomena. WIth that in mind, I don't think that someone who believes in a higher power is agnostic. I don't understand how someone who is truly agnositic can really understand emotions period (no offense Barb) because they are not materially tangeable.

Ok, I have a little girl to get rady for a Valentine's Day party ;-).

Cherokee - I understand how you must feel guilty, however you must stop! That baby would never have been able to survive, and your life would have been at danger. God knows this, and He knows your heart. How do you think those doctors and scientist were able to diagnose these things? They were given gifts to help people like you. (((0))).

TC you all!
Margarita
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 12:41:57 (EST)
Well, I'm pretty sure I did not get my luxury cruise to Alaska for Valentine's Day this year! I keep telling hubby that if he does not get me my "official honeymoon" soon, we are going to be so old they'll put us on the geriatric deck playing shuffleboard all day! My husband DID bring home what he got for our kids though~~A Barbie Heart purse filled with candy hearts for DD#1, a Valentine-Snoopy choo-choo train, with Snoopy as the conductor, for our DS, and a Baby's First Valentine's Day bottle for the little Miss. For the two older to share (yeah, like they'll do that!) he is picking them up The Lion King 1 1/2 video to keep. The two oldest ones get the biggest kick out of the preview when all the animals are bowing, leading you to believe they are bowing to the new Lion King, when actually it is because Timon let a stinky and it knocked them all over? What is it with kids and "fart" humor?! Anyway, the fact that my husband would go out Valentine's Day shopping for his babies is VERY sweet!! What a man!! I told him if I could not have my cruise, I wanted LASIK surgery, but I'm thinking that probably is not going to happen either. So, I'll probably make a nice dinner, then we'll watch the video with the kids, and that will be romantic enough for me!
angela
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 12:36:56 (EST)
You are so sweet Cherokee!! You should be worried about yourself right now.It doesn't matter how you lost your baby just that you did. I had a miscarriage and it would have hurt just the same in your situation as it did before.I know the choice you HAD to make was hard on you.You did what you had to do and it WAS and IS the right thing!!! I'm glad it was quick and you have such a supportive husband!! I hope you recover soon emotionally as well!!! Glad to see you back!!!
traci
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 12:19:41 (EST)
We dont usually do much for V-Day. My husband usually buys roses for my girls, and something for my son. We might go out to eat, or maybe stay home and just play games or something. We always involve the kids whatever it is. Good ? Kerri
Lyne
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 12:14:36 (EST)
What does everyone have planned for Valentines Day on Sat?
Kerri
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 12:02:48 (EST)
Here's that Newsweek article about "The Passion".

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4212741/
Barb
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 11:58:45 (EST)
Im glad everything went, as well as can be expected Cherokee. I have a feeling you will be telling us is 3-4 months that AF is late :) Have a great nappie with your baby boy!
Lyne
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 11:27:59 (EST)
Margarita~~Back to The Passion. I read the feature on it in Newsweek, and it was really pretty interesting. If you get a chance to get to the newstand, I would recommend buying this issue.
angela
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 11:05:18 (EST)
Cherokee~Glad to see you back hon! :)

Barb~You can believe in a higher power of your understanding, which does not necessarily have to be the God of Christianity. I don't know if that, then, makes you an agnostic. As long as you believe there is something out there, greater than yourself, I don't think you are agnostic. BUT, who knows?
I find Jehovah's very irritating too. I don't think somebody telling me "be blessed" is a bad thing though! And, I have NEVER had a checker/cashier bless me at Target or Econo-Foods! :)
angela
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 11:03:36 (EST)
Cherokee -

Glad to hear you came through safely. As for the "emotional risk," I think you've proven yourself an emotional risk taker. If you weren't, you'd still be wallowing in self-pity over your cheating first DH. Instead, you kept yourself open to love and found it. Then you added Esai to the mix. And if love and circumstances are right, I'll bet you take that risk of pregnancy again. You need some time to heal -- physically and emotionally -- and then your "scrappiness" will kick in. You're WAY to feisty to give up on something you really want!

Ellie
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 10:56:38 (EST)
Hi gals, I am back. :0)

I'm feeling pretty good, as good as you can feel after having a transit bus slam into to you LOL!;) Actually, just pretty yucky cramping, like a bad AF, mostly on the surgery side. Doc went in just below my belly button. I actually have more cramping from the gas they use to inflate your abdomen, up in my shoulder area which is common. It is actually a suprisingly simple procedure. I was home by 1pm yesterday. DH was waiting in the recovery room for me when I woke and was wonderful (as always) When it was time to go he just said "Let's go home to our kids", he made an effort of pointing out all day the cute qualities of our kids, the new things Esai is doing right now, things like that..trying to make realize we have SO many blessings to be thankful for right now.

Thank you all for the kindess you showed me...this was really difficult. I especially appreciate those ladies who shared their own failed pg experiences. For me, this wasn't as heartbreaking I think than as a women who miscarried a normal pregnancy. I mean, somehow I knew something from the very beginning was askew, like something was wrong..I've always been a very intuitive person, I just get vibes. From people, from things, situations, not like a psychic or anything, it's just hard to explain. Something was telling me NOT to get too excited. I just felt it. Anyway...when they did my ultrasound and I saw no "dot" on the screen I just knew something was up. What I'm saying is, I wasn't *shocked* before I went in there, I felt it. I absolutely cannot imagine going for several weeks, or 3 months thinking you are pregnant, and then suddenly losing a baby. My respectful nods to women who endure that. So hard. I left the surgicenter yesterday feeling guilty - like I had just purposefully ended the life of my child. I'm struggling with that, but as a person of science, I know it was impossible for that child to grow in a fallopian tube and it would have died before I was 12 weeks pg, not to mention killed me as well. It's just so difficult to realize that. The doctor said we could try again in 3-4 months, everything looks great "in there", but I don't know if I want to take that emotional risk again.

Anyway, thank you all again, you are good friends, and really, your sweetness towards me when I was hurting won't be forgotten. Well, Esai is down for a morning nappie, (early too it's only 8:25am here!)and Maddi is tucked into bed next to me watching Playhouse Disney. I think I'm going to take a nap myself. TC All, talk with you later!
Cherokee
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 10:29:15 (EST)
I’ve thought about that, too. Like that saying, “There’s no atheists in foxholes.” I think people look for a god in desperate situations. Sort of like their last ditch attempt for comfort. I don’t have an answer for you, which explains why I’m agnostic.

And I’ll tell you… with having recently lost my dad, I’ve been struggling with this, too. I want to think that he’s in a better place. But I’m just not convinced that a “place” like that exists. I get by with happy memories and I go out of my way to do things that I know would make him happy. Sometimes I do feel at ease like he’s right there next to me. I don’t credit it with a god, though.

As far as prayer, I agree with you. I think just the act of “talking” (if you will) to someone who you think can help you WILL help you. Whether you’re talking to your god, your deceased loved ones, or to no one in particular. The feeling that you’re doing something positive or putting your fears in the hands of someone else, can help you feel calm and comforted.

Barb
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 10:29:05 (EST)
Prayer is so powerful. It has worked miracles in my families life many times over.
Cherokee, how are you doing? Thinking of you and your family today.
Lyne
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 10:25:38 (EST)
Funny...I have been at the bedside of "agnostics" and "atheists" who suddenly seem to find God during their last hour...why is that?

Also, the power of prayer, ANY prayer to any God, has been shown to increase life expectancy and help cancer and other serious diseased patients have a longer than expected life span.

Kerri
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 10:16:28 (EST)
Raleigh...I need to move there.

Cherokee--how are you feeling hon?
Kerri
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 10:06:24 (EST)
I see your point too Barb. I can see both sides of it. Because, I know I get ticked off when the Jehovah Witness's come knocking on my door. If I want preached too, I will ask for it, dont come to me. So, yes, I can see your point.
Lyne
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 09:47:11 (EST)
Would you be upset if she said "Good morning, satan rules!"? I mean, after you were finished laughing, of course.

I'm just trying to use extremes so you can understand my point, which is that it sounds nice to you, but not to everyone, and if you were the one who was feeling uneasy about it, it would be a big deal to you.

Barb
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 09:41:40 (EST)
We have a customer where I work that is from Tennessee, and when I answer the phone, he always says * good morning, and God bless you *. I 've never had anyone else say that to me, ever. It doesnt bother me tho, its pretty trivial really. Why be upset about it?
Lyne
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 09:35:19 (EST)
Raleigh. Maybe it's a southern thing, because I get it at work (extremely inappropriate!), when I get my car washed, I mean EVERYWHERE.

Barb
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 09:32:21 (EST)
Barb -

Where do you live that they tell you "God bless you" when you receive change at the supermarket and Target? I've never had anyone mention God to me in such a circumstance.

Ellie
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 09:28:48 (EST)
Kerri – I was talking more about people. For example, I am blessed at least once a day, no exaggeration. Just by going into Target or the supermarket, I’m told, “Here’s your change, and god bless you.” This annoys me. Just picture if everywhere you went someone said, “Here’s your change, and satan blesses you.” (by people who worship satan). I know that’s an extreme example, but just picture how it’d feel. You wouldn’t like it.

As far as the issues you raised, like the “Pledge of Allegiance”, I actually didn’t know it had been a law that was passed. I followed it when the lawsuit was going on, but I missed the ending, apparently. If the word “god” was taken from the pledge, then I’m glad. And to those mentioning god on money, “God Bless America”, etc., yes, I’d love to see it taken out of those, too. That’s great if you want to sing “God Bless America” at church or religious event, but it should not be forced on everyone at a public event.

It’s interesting to me that some of you assume that atheists don’t have morals. I know a handful of atheists and they all live up to a very high standard. I’m agnostic, and I have very high morals. To sum them up, I treat others the same way I’d like to be treated, and I accept that every person is different and unique and I learn from him/her.

I fully support what David Malcolm said below, that the importance of our first amendment (free speech) is to protect those NOT in the majority.

Barb
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 08:45:01 (EST)
Here we go on the religion subject. This can get quit ugly ladies, as we have discussed this before, beware :)
At my daughters school, the football team prays before the game in the middle of the football field, and after each game they all stand in a circle holding hands and say a prayer. I think its wonderful!
Lyne
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 08:24:04 (EST)
On the religion in schools I would have to say that I am torn. I am a Christian. So with that said, I do not think that we should have prayer in schools. Why? b/c it would not be of one religion that we would allow prayer. We would have to allow all religions to be able to pray and I would not want my DDs to be praying to Budda nor anything or anyone else for that matter. I also do not agree taking anything out of what has been accepted for centuries. I see no problem with "one nation under God". So why take it out? If you are going to take it out, then you might as well take it out of our money too. Seriously, it is only those "non" believers that make such an issue, and most of them are atheists. Like I said I don't agree with having religion in schools wholy, and if that is what a person wants then send your child to a private school. Just because the pledge has the word "God" in there does not mean that we have to take it out for our public schools sake. Nobody had a problem with Pres Bush using God after the 911 attacks. We need that in our society. Look at what we have become. WE have become a nation of broken homes, child violence and that of no moral values. I truely believe that if most adopted a sense of moral values provided by the example of the Ten Commandments whether it be religious or not, this nation might be a better more selfless nation.
That is just my opinion.
Wendy
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 03:02:22 (EST)
Why is it when it comes to religion in schools, do so many people think that neutrality or the absence of any religion in schools is an attack on their respective religions? The Constitution was not meant to protect the majority but rather to protect the individual from the majority.
David Malcolm
email: pixeluva@yahoo.com
Thursday, February 12, 2004 at 01:45:11 (EST)
I just had to add, I am pleased to say that the schools I have been observing, the ones in the school district in the town I live in, still say "One Nation Under God" during the pledge.
While I am pleased about this, and do beleive this is the intent out constitution was written with, I have to add that "One Nation Under God" was not part of the original Pledge. If you do a little research on it, you will find it was added at a later date.
Margarita
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 at 23:48:05 (EST)
Kerri, I did a class presentation on religion in public schools. For the most part, I feel that the Supreme Court has done well playing fair. However, I do things are a bit ridiculous when prayers / songs are ommitted from ceremonies for one student who says they feel like they are being discriminated against because their only options are to participate, stay in the room and not participate, or leave the room. So, instead, all the students who do want to participate now can not. On the other hand, the way the constitution is written gives law makers no choice... I still think that "the squeeky wheel gets the grease" in these cases. Those who do not want God in the classroom are much more vocal than those who either don't feel strongly about it one way or another, or do want God in the public schools.
Margarita
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 at 23:43:56 (EST)
Barb-how can you say our culture is not "anti-Christian?" Have you not noticed that "God" has been taken out of the Pledge (just look up the father who sued the school district)? Prayer is not allowed in schools or before sports events? Schools nowadays are omitting the Christmas concerts/parties in some districts. And to give a personal example of something that I found prejudiced, the hospital I work in had a 4 foot high menorah in the lobby but not a single Christmas tree...and the staff is 85% Christian! Go figure. I definitely think our society is "anti-Christian" and it is sad.
Morals and values were better when God was a bigger part of our lives...now kids are bringing guns to schools and having sex at younger ages. Again...sad...
Kerri
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 at 22:30:40 (EST)
I'll have to check back later...we're all off to watch a movie. I am really interested in Margarita's post. Wish I had more time now!

I'll check back in the am.
:-)
Saraj
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 at 21:23:13 (EST)
Wendy,
Hi! Welcome over here ;-).

I am glad you all are happy that I shared the review - I was worried I might be taking advantage of my "captive audience". One of my e-friends from another board sent it to me.

Well, I have some toddler interferance to run before my schoolwork is all over the floor.
TC.
Margarita
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 at 20:17:03 (EST)
Hi everyone! We are back from vacation and we had a wonderful time. I found out our 5 year old is a fish. He went down every water slide, and insisted on going alone. We had to sign a waiver so he COULD go alone. Our 2 yr old hated the slides, he liked the lazy river and the "hot tubs". We are all exhausted.

I see the topic has not changed on the forum yet. I'll scan the history and see what you are all discussing. :-)


Saraj
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 at 20:08:30 (EST)
Hello. I am new here but not to the boards. I am 24 and have two wonderful DD's. One who is almost two (on the 20th) and the other is 10 weeks. Hoping to chat with you all!!

Hey Margarita!! How are you?? I will talk to you soon!
Wendy
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 at 19:02:09 (EST)
I don’t agree that our culture is “anti-Christian.” I’m surrounded by Christians everywhere I go, and they’re always talking about how perfect Jesus was (to an annoying extent). I’m interested in seeing “The Passion” and I don’t follow any religion.

I'm glad to read an early review. Thanks for sharing.

Barb
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 at 15:56:27 (EST)
Margarita-thanks for sharing that post. My dh and I are eagerly awaiting the release of "The Passion". The last paragraph says it all and I agree with the statement that our "anti-Christian" culture only wants to deplict Christ as some awful person...unless he is "homosexual" or an "everyday sinner". So sad how our society has become.
Thanks again, I will be cutting and pasting it onto my friends!
Kerri
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 at 12:16:05 (EST)
Shawanda - I have heard the same thing - that learning two languages is easier the younger you are, especially for children. You probably don't need to be concerned that the German is slowing her down. What an opportunity for her to be bilingual ;-).

Cherokee - I'm thinking of you, and your husband and your little bean.
Margarita
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 at 11:39:28 (EST)
So sorry for your loss Cherokee. Try and take comfort in those loved ones around you.

Take Care !
Riley's Mom
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 at 11:22:37 (EST)
Thinking of you today Cherokee. Lots of cyber hugs to you and your family.
Lyne
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 at 09:48:04 (EST)
Shawanda~~That's cute. :) I'm not a Child Development specialist at all, but I think Joyce is probably picking up the English right along with the German. She is probably translating back and forth between the language, and this is a GREAT age for language development. She is a little information sponge at her age, and since English is her primary language at home, I would not be too worried. She seems, just from what you say, to just be a very observant child. She is probably soaking everything up around her, and maybe does not feel the need to talk a whole lot. I know the "Mommy Olympians" are tough to deal with~I dealt with them too in the military family. I think the mommies who brag the most, probably fret just as much as the rest of us "mere mortal" mommies! Take Care!

Margarita~~YES! I am going to see that movie as soon as it is released here! This weeks "Newsweek" magazine has that as it's feature story, and it is on the cover. I'm a Christain, and I love history, so I'll definitely see this movie.

Cherokee~I'm thinking of you today hon! Hang in there! {{{{{Hugs}}}}
angela
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 at 09:15:42 (EST)
Shawanda -

I don't think you have to worry about your daughter and learning German. Every study I've read indicates that learning two languages at her age DOES NOT slow down the learning of either one. In fact, most studies point to the fact that kids exposed to bilingualism at that age learn both languages as fast (or faster) than those who are learning a single language. Kids are sponges, and at that age their rote memory skills help them to pick up, parrot and remember all kinds of things. I think your daughter will probably just end up being a well-rounded child.

Ellie
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 at 09:14:07 (EST)
Cherokee,

Sorry to hear that you've lost a precious child.

To all-

Thanks for the information. I guys when the mommies play, "The Mommy Olympics" it makes you wonder what more could be done to ensure that your child is on track.

I've taken her out of ballet, because I think at this point it's probably to much for her to handle. However, she's going to the Youth Center for piano classes. She seems to love music.

angie- She knows how to say alot of German words (better than english). She doesn't even say french fries, instead she ask for pomme fritz (french fries). Instead of saying bye, she says, choos. Actually, she speaks alot of German and clearly understands when someone tells her something in German. Instead of saying good morning, she says Guten Tag. Interesting huh? Im wondering if learning German is slowing her english down.

Again, thanks for the advice. Truly I greatly appreciate it!

Be Blessed!

Shawanda
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 at 07:17:47 (EST)
Cherokee, I'm so sorry to learn of your loss.

I've lost 2 children; one at age 3 1/2 years, and the other at birth.

God Bless You.
CR
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 at 02:25:04 (EST)
Cherokee: I am so sorry to hear about your day. Words cannot make you feel better so I wont even try.. We're all here for you and will be thinking of you.
Sasha
Tuesday, February 10, 2004 at 22:55:40 (EST)
Cherokee - I'm sorry to hear of your loss. Heal well friend.
Liisa
Tuesday, February 10, 2004 at 22:51:22 (EST)
Just curious, how many of you will see this movie? This was sent to me by a friend. Sorry that some of the words have ran together. My pastor is encouraging everyone in the congregation to see this movie. I am excited for it to come out.

Paul Harvey Comments on "The Passion" by Mel Gibson
The majority of the media are complaining about this movie. Now PaulHarvey tells "The rest of the story" and David Limbaugh praises Gibson.Most people would wait and see a movie before giving the reviews thathave been issued by the reporters trying to tell all of us what tobelieve.
Paul Harvey's words:I
really did not know what to expect. I was thrilled to have beeninvited to a private viewing of Mel Gibson's film "The Passion," but Ihad also read all the cautious articles and spin. I grew up in aJewish town and owe much of my own faith journey to the influence. Ihave a life long, deeply held aversion to anything that might evenindirectly encourage any form of anti-Semitic thought, language or actions.I arrived at the private viewing for "The Passion", held inWashington DC and greeted some familiar faces. The environment wastypically Washingtonian, with people greeting you with a smile butseeming to look beyond you, having an agenda beyond the words. The filmwas very briefly introduced, without fanfare, and then the room darkened.
From the gripping opening scene in the Garden of Gethsemane, to the veryhuman and tender portrayal of the earthly ministry of Jesus, through thebetrayal, the arrest, the scourging, the way of the cross, the encounterwith the thieves, the surrender on the Cross, until the final scene inthe empty tomb, this was not simply a movie; it was an encounter, unlikeanything I have ever experienced.
In addition to being a masterpiece of film-making and an artistictriumph, "The Passion" evoked more deep reflection, sorrow andemotional reaction within me than anything since my wedding, myordination or the birth of my children. Frankly, I will never be thesame. When the film concluded, this "invitation only" gathering of"movers and shakers" in Washington, DC were shaking indeed, butthis time from sobbing. I am not sure there was a dry eye in theplace. The crowd that had been glad-handing before the film was noweerily silent. No one could speak because words were woefully inadequate.We had experienced a kind of art that is a rarity in life, the kind thatmakes heaven touch earth.
One scene in the film has now been forever etched in my mind. Abrutalized, wounded Jesus was soon to fall again under the weight of thecross. His mother had made her way along the Via Della Rosa. As she ranto him, she flashed back to a memory of Jesus as a child, falling in thedirt road outside of their home. Just as she reached to protect him fromthe fall, she was now reaching to touch his wounded adult face. Jesuslooked at her with intensely probing and passionately loving eyes (and atall of us through the screen) and said "Behold I make all things new."These are words taken from the last Book of the New Testament, the Bookof Revelations. Suddenly, the purpose of the pain was so clear and thewounds, that earlier in the film had been so difficult to see in Hisface, His back, indeed all over His body, became intensely beautiful.They had been borne voluntarily for love.
At the end of the film, after we had all had a chance to recover, aquestion and answer period ensued. The unanimous praise for the film,from a rather diverse crowd, was as astounding as the compliments wereeffusive. The questions included the one question that seems to followthis film, even though it has not yet even been released. "Why is thisfilm considered by some to be "anti-Semitic?" Frankly, having nowexperienced (you do not "view" this film) "the Passion" it is a questionthat is impossible to answer. A law professor whom I admire sat in frontof me. He raised his hand and responded "After watching this film, I donot understand how anyone can insinuate that it even remotely presentsthat the Jews killed Jesus. It doesn't." He continued "It made me realizethat my sins killed Jesus" I agree. There is not a scintilla ofanti-Semitism to be found anywhere in this powerful film. If there were,I would be among the first to decry it. It faithfully tells the Gospelstory in a dramatically beautiful, sensitive and profoundly engaging way.
Those who are alleging otherwise have either not seen the film orhave another agenda behind their protestations. This is not a"Christian" film, in the sense that it will appeal only to those whoidentify themselves as followers of Jesus Christ. It is a deeplyhuman, beautiful story that will deeply touch all men and women. It is aprofound work of art. Yes, its producer is a Catholic Christian andthankfully has remained faithful to the Gospel text; if that is no longeracceptable behavior than we are all in trouble. History demands that weremain faithful to the story and Christians have a right to tell it.After all, we believe that it is the greatest story ever told and thatits message is for all men and women. The greatest right is the right tohear the truth.
We would all be well advised to remember that the Gospel narratives towhich "The Passion" is so faithful were written by Jewish men whofollowed a Jewish Rabbi whose life and teaching have forever changed thehistory of the world. The problem is not the message but those who havedistorted it and used it for hate rather than love. The solution is notto censor the message, but rather to promote the kind of gift of lovethat is Mel Gibson's filmmaking masterpiece, "The Passion."It should be seen by as many people as possible. I intend to doeverything I can to make sure that is the case. I am passionate about"The Passion." You will be as well. Don't miss it!

This is a commentary by DAVID LIMBAUGH about Mel Gibson's verycontroversial movie regarding Christ's crucifixion. It, too, is wellworth reading.
MEL GIBSON'S passion for "THE PASSION"How ironic that when a movie producer takes artistic license withhistorical events, he is lionized as artistic, creative and brilliant,but when another takes special care to be true to the real-life story,he is vilified. Actor-producer Mel Gibson is discovering these truths thehard way as he is having difficulty finding a United States studio ordistributor for his upcoming film, "The Passion," which depicts the last12 hours of the life of Jesus Christ.
Gibson co-wrote the script and financed, directed and produced the movie.For the script, he and his co-author relied on the New Testament Gospelsof Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, as well as the diaries of St. AnneCatherine Emmerich (1774-1824) and Mary of Agreda's "The City of God."Gibson doesn't want this to be like other sterilized religious epics."I'm trying to access the story on a very personal level and trying tobe very real about it." So committed to realistically portraying whatmany would consider the most important half-day in the history of theuniverse, Gibson even shot the film in the Aramaic language of theperiod. In response to objections that viewers will not be able tounderstand that language, Gibson said, "Hopefully, I'll be able totranscend the language barriers with my visual storytelling; if I fail, Ifail, but at least it'll be a monumental failure."
To further insure the accuracy of the work, Gibson has enlisted thecounsel of pastors and theologians, and has received rave reviews. DonHodel, president of Focus on the Family, said, "I was very impressed. Themovie is historically and theologically accurate." Ted Haggard, pastor ofNew Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colo., and president of theNational Evangelical Association, glowed: "It conveys, more accuratelythan any other film, who Jesus was."
During the filming, Gibson, a devout Catholic, attended Mass everymorning because "we had to be squeaky clean just working on this." FromGibson's perspective, this movie is not about Mel Gibson. It's biggerthan he is. "I'm not a preacher, and I'm not a pastor," he said. "But Ireally feel my career was leading me to make this. The Holy Ghost wasworking through me on this film, and I was just directing traffic. I hopethe film has the power to evangelize."
Even before the release of the movie, scheduled for March 2004, Gibson isgetting his wish. "Everyone who worked on this movie was changed. Therewere agnostics and Muslims on set converting to Christianity...[and]people being healed of diseases." Gibson wants people to understandthrough the movie, if they don't already, the incalculable influenceChrist has had on the world. And he grasps that Christ is controversialprecisely because of WHO HE IS - GOD incarnate. "And that's the point of myfilm really, to show all that turmoil around him politically and with religiousleaders and the people, all because He is Who He is."
Gibson is beginning to experience first hand just how controversialChrist is. Critics have not only speciously challenged the movie'sauthenticity, but have charged that it is disparaging to Jews, whichGibson vehemently denies. "This is not a Christian vs. Jewish thing.'[Jesus] came into the world, and it knew him not.' Looking at Christ'scrucifixion, I look first at my own culpability in that." Jesuit FatherWilliam J. Fulco, who translated the script into Aramaic and Latin, saidhe saw no hint of anti-Semitism in the movie. Fulco added, "I would beaghast at any suggestion that Mel Gibson is anti-Semitic." Nevertheless,certain groups and some in the mainstream press have been very criticalof Gibson's "Passion."
The New York Post's Andrea Peyser chided him: "There is still time, Mel,to tell the truth." Boston Globe columnist James Carroll denouncedGibson's literal reading of the biblical accounts. "Even a faithfulrepetition of the Gospel stories of the death of Jesus can do damageexactly because those sacred texts themselves carry the virus of Jewhatred," wrote Carroll. A group of Jewish and Christian academics hasissued an 18-page report slamming all aspects of the film, including itsundue emphasis on Christ's passion rather than "a broader vision." Thereport disapproves of the movie's treatment of Christ's passion ashistorical fact.
The moral is that if you want the popular culture to laud your work onChrist, make sure it either depicts Him as a homosexual or as an everydaysinner with no particular redeeming value (literally). In ouranti-Christian culture, the blasphemous "The Last Temptation of Christ"is celebrated and "The Passion" is condemned. But if this movie continuesto affect people the way it is now, no amount of cultural opposition willsuppress its force and its positive impact on lives everywhere. MelGibson is a model of faith and courage.
Please copy this and send it on to all your friends to let themknow about this film so that we'll all go see it when it comes out.
Margarita
Tuesday, February 10, 2004 at 20:05:10 (EST)
CHEROKEE--oh no! I am so sorry to hear that it is an etopic pregnancy. I suffered a miscarriage 10 weeks into my first pregnancy and know how emotional it can be to "lose" something you already love...my thoughts and prayers are with you tomorrow.
Kerri
Tuesday, February 10, 2004 at 19:07:57 (EST)
Cherokee - I am so sorry sweetie. ((((((0)))))) to you and your dh.
Margarita
Tuesday, February 10, 2004 at 18:40:56 (EST)
I'm headed to church now, Cherokee, to light a candle for you, your DH and the soul of that little bean. Look to your faith, look to your family and know that God will watch over you all.

Ellie
Tuesday, February 10, 2004 at 17:44:02 (EST)
CHEROKEE...I am so sorry about your loss and for what you must be going through right now...I have had 5 miscarriages myself and know that it is not an easy time...but the Lord works in mysterious ways and I know you and your hubby will pull through this be OK to try again when you are well and healthy again!

Please know you are in my thoughts and prayers and that time will heal! Take care of yourself!
LH
Tuesday, February 10, 2004 at 17:03:28 (EST)
Cherokee- I am so very sorry! I really don't know what to say. I know this has to be so hard on you and I wish you all the peace in the world. I hope everythng goes good tomorrow, as well as pain free. You don't need physical pain too.I will pray that you and your husband get through this together.I really hope you are getting all the support you need, and again I am so sorry. You and your family are in my prayers!
traci
Tuesday, February 10, 2004 at 16:44:57 (EST)
Cherokee, I am so sorry to hear about this. I will be thinking of you and your family. Again, Im so sorry.
Lyne
Tuesday, February 10, 2004 at 15:35:37 (EST)
Oh, Cherokee, I am so sorry for you and your family. My thoughts are with you.

Barb
Tuesday, February 10, 2004 at 15:29:57 (EST)
Cherokee, my heart aches for you and your family. Please know that most of us here do care about one another and you are in my thoughts and prayers. From someone who suffered a loss at 12 weeks trust me when I say "Cling to your dh" It's what got me through.

I hope for a healthy and speedy recovery for you.


Misty
Tuesday, February 10, 2004 at 15:19:52 (EST)
Well guys...I just wanted to do a quick post and let you know how things went at the doctor's office. It turns out my pregnancy is indeed in my fallopian tube, as I suspected. I just had a "weird" feeling, that is the only way I can explain it. The pain is really bad. The doctor gave me some narcotics for the pain though. I go in tomorrow am to have it removed. It is still small enough and early enough that they will not have to remove the tube. DH is beside himself. Neither of us has had to deal with a loss before, so this is hard. He is upset with me that I didn't tell him when I knew I was pg, I explained that I wanted to surprise him and showed him the little silver frame I had engraved and right now it is really too much. He wanted this baby so bad. He feels like I should have told him the minute I thought something wasn't right (true)and now he is dealing with just now finding out I am pg, to finding out after tomorrow I won't be pg. He is very understanding with the whole thing and said we could do whatever I want, keep trying or stop. I don't think I can deal with the emotional risk again. We do have the blessing of our wonderful little Esai together, and Maddi is like his own child. I'm glad I didn't tell the kids yet...we are not going to even tell them. Thanks for listening ladies, I'm lucky to have e-met some nice people. I appreciate you hearing out my vent.

Right now I just need to rest, as I still plan to start my job on Monday come hell or high water. I'll E-see you all in a few days. Thanks!
Cherokee
Tuesday, February 10, 2004 at 15:07:56 (EST)
Angela - I figured that was the case, but just wanted to be sure ;-). I was halfway joking because I didn't think it was really a possibility, but would rather know if someone thought I was leaving posts like that than not know... also someone has used my name once before to leave a post... it's been a while ago and LH caught it when it happened. Always a possibility that someone would use it again to leave a rude post and get everyone mad at me!

Shawanda - I wouldn't worry! Miranda didn't develop physically on time, she wasn't even near walking when she was 11 months. She had to go to a physical therapist for over a year. It did help some, but they weren't really doing anything that we weren't doing at home - I do beleive that kids will just do things when they are ready. Reading to and talking to kids is the only suggestion I would have, and it sounds like you do plenty of it =). Miranda has an outstandign vacab and grasp of language for her age, but I'll bet that kids who don't have her speech skills outshine her physically. She is just now climbing up on furniture like bookcases and really getting adventurous. Ok, I have got to run, I am late. SOrry for any typos or misspells, dont' have time to chck.

Margarita
Tuesday, February 10, 2004 at 14:29:51 (EST)
Angela -- You and I have similar-aged daughters! My Isabelle will be 10 months in a week. She’s our first, but I agree that the time has flown by!

I took note that you’re able to put your daughter’s hair in a pony tail… we’re struggling with Isabelle’s hair because she has a colic right in the front and her hair’s always a mess. She wakes up and it’s all over the place, which makes her that much cuter. We tried using barrettes for her last picture, but she wouldn’t hold still long enough for us to get it in! I’m really loving this age because so much is happening. She’s cruising and has four teeth and has really started to snuggle with my husband and me. It’s great!

Barb
Tuesday, February 10, 2004 at 14:23:54 (EST)
She's 8 months old today! Eight months old on the 10th!
angela
Tuesday, February 10, 2004 at 13:56:03 (EST)
Lyne~~She's 10 months old today! She JUST start "furniture surfing" on Sunday! THAT'S my big girl! Though if you listen to my hubby "bragging on his baby" I had NOTHING to do with her being so beautiful/brilliant/charming/adorable/ etc.! She IS the light that twinkles in her daddy's eye, that's for sure. She's so cute...she has three little teeth, and we put her hair (which is red) up in a "Pebbles" pony-tail on top of her head. She just melts my heart when she scoots along the sofa, and gives us her big drooly grin! I kind of in a way wish she would slow down though, 'ya know? She is our last baby, and it's like she's growing too fast for us! How's that for sappy? LOL.

angela
Tuesday, February 10, 2004 at 13:54:46 (EST)
Hello!
I have been very lucky with my son. He was potty trained the week he turned two.He is now 3 1/2. The talking thing..ugh..My kids never shutup. Kids are different. Sometimes you think they are behind and don't know something and they suprise you. When my son was 15 months old he knew his colors!!!He also knew many other things. By the age of two he could recognize every letter in the alphabet. Well his sister doesn't know any of those things as far as I know.My husband said I was lazy, but really she just has no interest to learn it yet, besides she is only 22 months old. I just let her learn by playing.Well the other morning charlie was telling her to count. He was showing her to count on his fingers. He went to 5 and stopped.SHE CONTINUED!!! She said 6,7,8,9,10!!! I was so shocked I literally jumped out of the bed and started clapping, and telling her yay! I have never taught her how to count, but somehow she learned it by seeing it on tv and hearing her brother do it. I thought she didn't knkow anything other than talking my ear off, but she does! You would really be suprised how much your kids really know, and just don't say!!
Now the pretend friends, we haven't had any YET! I am sure they will come eventually though! It should be fun to watch that!!LOL
You guys have hilarious stories about those!!! You should write them down and tell them to their boyfriends, and girlfriends when they get older!


Good Luck Cherokee!!!
traci
Tuesday, February 10, 2004 at 13:50:26 (EST)
Hi Angela. I have to say, we were worried. With all the health problems he had, and I think I told you all about him getting HIB as a baby. So I was concerend that something really was wrong. People tell me how clear his speech is for his age. But his fine motor skills are lacking, of no fault of his own. He loves to sit and learn, it just isnt clicking yet. I remember the PT issues too. My first daughter was actually my hardest. My boy was the easiest, although I have heard boys are the worst to train. I totally agree with letting him lead the way, no need to stress over something as trivial as PT. How is miss Dayton doing? Walking yet?
Hi Cherokee :)
Lyne
Tuesday, February 10, 2004 at 13:33:54 (EST)
Lyne~Hi. You kind of reminded me of my mom in your last post. No, I am not saying you sound like a grandma! But, whenever I would stress out about our first born's development, ie. Is she crawling at the "right" time, walking?, talking?, weaning from the bottle?, potty training? etc. My mother would always say...As long as she is not (insert your worry here) when she walks across the stage to get her diploma, who cares? Or, Harvard is not going to deny her a full scholarship because she did not wean off of her bottle until she was two!(Or whatever the SUPER MOMMIE'S at playgroup had convinced me was wrong with her.) We are right now~today as we speak~trying to potty train our 2 1/2 year old son. He is at about 50% for peeing in the potty, but we really are not having any luck with consistancy, let alone being even CLOSE to getting out of Pull-Ups. Know what my dh says? He doesn't care if our son wears a pull-up to kindergarten, we just are not going to STRESS out over the potty training thing this time! Mason has all the "cues" to potty train, but to be quite honest he could really give a flyin' flip if he walks around in a soggy/stinky diaper! Doesn't bother him! Go figure! I'm told boys train a bit later, but then that could just be friends trying to be "polite" to us. LOL. Having two in diapers in HARD on the wallet though!
angela
Tuesday, February 10, 2004 at 12:21:16 (EST)