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Welcome to the Sound Off Discussion Board, where parents from all walks of life and all parts of the world come together in one place to share their opinions and thoughts about the question of the week. Please remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion and the freedom to express it. Obscene posts are unwelcome and shall be removed from the board. Please keep in mind that this is a public board. Never post personal information that you would be uncomfortable sharing with others. Comments about this board should be sent to iParenting's Webmaster. Thank you for contributing! If you have a suggestion for the question of the week, send it to feedback@iparenting.com.

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Will you see Mel Gibson's movie, The Passion of the Christ? Why or why not?

For archived topics, click here.

New question for everyone...WHAT IS THE NICEST THING A STRANGER HAS EVER DONE FOR YOU?

Today, It began raining while I was at work. When I heard that I said, "oh no, and of course I didn't bring an umbrella!". My patient's priest was visiting and offered his to me. I told him "no, thank you" and thought that was the end of it. Then, when I get ready to go, the registration gal stops me on the way out and gives me an umbrella. "This is from the Priest, he wanted me to make sure you got it". I was just shocked! There really are nice people out there! They just seem far and few between!
Kerri
Thursday, March 04, 2004 at 20:03:44 (EST)
Ellie, our insurance does pay for Allegra. However it is out-of-formulary, so instead of a $20 co-pay it is $30. Clariten is the formulary choice in my plan also. My son needs allergy meds. Clariten made him break out in hives all over. We discovered that alot of stuff he was eating, mainly wheat products was what caused his allergies. Thankfully, when we eliminated it, his allergies subsided a great deal.
Cherokee
Thursday, March 04, 2004 at 18:37:15 (EST)
Our Ins pays for Viagra too Cherokee, 15.00 copay. I had to check too :)
Lyne
Thursday, March 04, 2004 at 14:28:02 (EST)
Cherokee -

They pay for Viagra, but do they pay for Allegra? That seems to be the new drug that no one wants to pay for. I finally found relief from allergy-induced laryngitis (four months out of the year for more than eight years) only to be told they won't cover it anymore. They will cover Claritin, which is like taking a placebo as far as I'm concerned.

Ellie
Thursday, March 04, 2004 at 14:06:37 (EST)
Margarita ~ Sorry! :0)

Best of luck at your interview!

Ellie ~ That is the truth. But if they pay for stuff like Paxil and Zoloft and other anti-depressants. They SHOULD pay for a treating medication for PPD. And..FYI I was curious so I checked out our formulary...my insurance plan PAYS for VIAGRA..$20.00 co-pay.
Cherokee
Thursday, March 04, 2004 at 13:54:03 (EST)
LOL, CHerokee, you have me mixed up with Shawanda ;-).

Finite math, uhhhhh, no ;-).
I am not a great math student. When I took my original placement for college classes 11 years ago, I was fresh out of hs and still had to take one level below college level math!! No, this math class is designed for prospective elementary school teachers. It teaches us what the correct processes are in determining answers, not just checking to see if we get the right answers. It has been a lot of fun, and I am doing really well, probably because I am being forced to understand how everything fits together.

Back to The Passion... I don't want to step on anyone's feelings, but I am sick of hearing "it's too violent". I think it is just a cop-out to not see it because some people are worried they will feel convicted. My dh doesn't want to see it, but at least he has the guts to admit that he is worried about how it will make him feel. This is a nation that watches all sorts of violence on movies that we pay to see, and cable tv, and I don't hear nearly as much uproar about that as the violence in this film that depicts a truth. I just want to shout out "wake up!!". Ok, had to vent that out.

I better go - I am nervous as heck about my interview, going to do some praying and get my jitterbugs in control.
Later,

Margarita
Thursday, March 04, 2004 at 13:17:20 (EST)
The sad thing is that if they find an appropriate medication for PPD women that doesn't excrete in breast milk, insurance companies will find a way to make sure that they don't have to cover the cost of it. It will end up an expensive, out-of-pocket medication that will only be available those who are financially able to absorb the cost.


Ellie
Thursday, March 04, 2004 at 13:12:27 (EST)
Hi All,
Thanks for sharing your stories regarding PPD. I too suffered strange feelings after the birth of my child. I wasn't very emotional, but I had strange visions while holding the baby. Like when walking down the stairs, I would imagine myself dropping the baby to the ground from the second story in the foyer. Another frequent one was when we walked across a bridge in a local park, I imagined myself dropping the baby again into the water. It gave me chills to have these "visions" and it scared the heck out of me! After a few walks, I told my dh to carry the baby while we crossed...and one day he actually said, "I always get nervous carrying her across the bridge, like what if I drop her"...RELIEVED I told him that was why I wanted HIM to carry her across. At that point I didn't feel like something was "wrong" with me...just odd I guess with having a new baby.
I agree that PPD needs to be addressed more...and how about getting rid of some of those ucler medication commercials! GEESH, what are there about 10 different drugs on the market for the same thing?
Covergirl
Thursday, March 04, 2004 at 10:50:22 (EST)
Isn't it AMAZING how many of us have had "those feelings" after our babies were born?? And we are all great mommies now! All it took was one person to share and we (LOL)come out of the woodwork. :0) This is what I am SAYING...if more women knew that these feelings were "OK" and that it was "OK" to discuss them, so they could be filtered out and treated...well...I don't think we would see the trauma as much as we have. Do you know...in the UK...(I don't have the exact quotes on this subject but Ang might know since she spent time there more recently than I)anyway, in the UK, If a mother murders her baby within its first year of life, that the penalty is much smaller, if any penalty at all, because they RECOGNIZE PPD as a bonified psychiatric and physiologic medical condition. I'm not saying it should be, I'm just illustrating that at least they recognize it. That doesn't happen here, we are ready to burn mamas at the stake! The whole issue is just so sad. I feel blessed that it wasn't too bad with me, I just got irrational with worry (I totally got what you were saying Margarita)and was VERY worried everytime my now ex-husband walked out the door to work in the morning. I was afraid he would die and our children would have no father. I also worried the same way for my current husband. He is a construction surveyor and walks around on the ground with all these 9 ton pieces of equipment rolling around him, I would have dreams that they were repeatedly running him over. Morbid, I know. That was how it always manifested with me. But I knew it was a *form* of PPD, because when my new husband and I had our son...I let him know ahead of time that may happen, and it did, just like clockwork. He would catch me reorganizing the baby's changing table after a 3am feeding and steer me back to bed and tell me it looked great, he was *sure* Esai would appreciate the color-coded booties and onesies at 6 days of age LOL...he approached it with love and warmth and humor. Also, my doc was GREAT..he was my doc when I had cancer too so I luv him anyhow..but he talked me through it too. Granted, it wasn't as bad with me as it is with some moms. I think it is all about hormones and too much of/not enough of with PPD. If they could come up with a non-psychotropic medication that didn't excrete through the breastmilk to the baby and just would *balance* women after birth, women would jump on it just as fast as men jump on a medication to have an extended hard-on. (sorry if tmi)But really, where is the medical communities' priorities anyhow??

Marie~I am taking my pre-reqs to apply to nursing school. So far I am doing well in my classes, but online classes are really hard..you are basically teaching yourself. My college does offer free tutoring for online subjects if I end up needing it though. You gotta be so disciplined. I haven't watched Law & Order or ER in 3 WEEKS..ACCKKK! Miss my shows! Whose left on the Apprentice? I've waited a long time to go back to school, and I love it.

Margarita~Finite Math..hmmmm. Sounds tricky. This is embarassing, when I took my placement tests for English and math prior to registering for college, I placed in honors for my English, but I will need to take REMEDIAL math...can you believe??? I know just enough for drug calculations, but that isn't good enough. Uggghh.

Ok chicadees, I need to run. I got up early to get some (more) homework done. Kids are still sleeping. It is a rainy/windy/cold/dark day...very cozy in here and I would love to crawl back into bed.I was up till 1:30 doing homework...I have this lab assignment to do with fresh beets - ya know how hard it is to find fresh beets this time of year?? I had to go to Whole Foods. Anyhow. A score of other assignments that I need to turn in early because I am working this Fri/Sat/Mon overnights. {{hugs}} everyone! :0)


Cherokee
Thursday, March 04, 2004 at 10:11:29 (EST)

Kerri – I’m so sad to read about the terrible loss. My thoughts are with you and her family.

I definitely suffered from the baby blues after my daughter was born. I never could explain it while I felt it, and even now I don’t know how to put it into words and I don’t understand why I felt the way I did.

I had a bad, bad experience with my delivery. I’ve mentioned before that my daughter was measuring big at the end of my pregnancy and I never dilated at all and she hadn’t dropped, so I needed a cesarian. This was a big blow to me because I had planned the whole pregnancy to deliver vaginally and after seeing c-sections on TV and at my Lamaze class, it was the very last thing I ever wanted.

Somewhere in there, between the c-section and the second day or so, I got an infection. I had very high fevers and then the shakes started. If you’ve ever had the kind of fevers where your whole body is freezing and all you can do is shake, then you know how scary it is. I was hallucinating and my husband told me much later that he thought I was going to die. Keep in mind I was still in the hospital at this point, and I tried to explain to the nurses what I was feeling, but I never felt like they understood. Finally the head nurse said that to solve the shaking problem I just needed to take my ibuprofen (or whatever fever reducer I was taking) on time. But the nurses never brought it on time; I literally had to call the nurse to ask for my meds every time, just because I feared getting more shakes. But even that didn’t always work.

To anyone who’s never experienced this before… it was so awful that I couldn’t do things like get out of bed to breastfeed my daughter because I was shaking so bad. All I could do was weep. My husband was with me the whole time in the hospital, and he was supplementing her with formula because she was dehydrated because of this problem. There is no worse feeling than being in the same room with your new baby and not being able to feed/console/even hold her because you’re too sick.

Because of the infection, I was in the hospital a full week. The day we packed up to leave, I couldn’t stop crying. This is when I think the true baby blues started. I couldn’t explain it. I was so happy to finally be going home, but I just kept crying. I was like that for weeks, but I hid it from everyone. I’d let my husband console me and I’d tell him how I was feeling, but only about half the time.

That infection I had was so bad that I had to have a catheter put in my arm and I had to give myself (mostly my hubby did it) liquid antibiotics every 8 hours on the dot for the first two weeks I was home. So here’s me: a new mom, struggling with breastfeeding (I never did get engorged like I’ve heard and read about, so I think that was a separate issue), feeling sickly, a catheter tube hanging out of my arm… it wasn’t a pretty picture.

I think what I felt the most was that I’d feel that way forever… like this was it. My life would never be the same, and it would never be good again. I was never resentful toward my daughter or husband; I was just exasperated. And I had crying spells on and off for about the first three months. Going back to work was the hardest and most miserable time, but I got through it.

I did give up breastfeeding on the 10th day. It was causing so much stress for me that it was best for all of us that we switched to strictly formula feeding. I was worried about her being dehydrated again, I was never getting any rest because she wanted to eat all the time (she was an 11-pound baby!), and I was worried about the heavy-duty antibiotics I was pumping into me. Giving up breastfeeding was the hardest and most traumatizing decision I made… I had planned to breastfeed for at least a year. I think a part of feeling depressed was that none of my birth went as planned, and it was a big wake-up call that these things don’t always go as I want them to.

The important thing to note now is that I’m healthy again, totally happy and in love with my family, and hoping to have more children (but not yet!). Like I said, I look back and can’t even understand what I was feeling or why I was feeling it, but SOMETHING happens to our bodies/minds.

I realize this is the long version of my story. But I think a bunch of us have reiterated what someone said earlier – that this is such a common problem that nobody should be embarrassed or ashamed of their feelings.

Barb
Thursday, March 04, 2004 at 09:49:40 (EST)
Kerri~I suffered Post Partum Depression after our son was born, and it was no fun. Of course, at the time I did not know that is what it was, but my husband knew there was something "off" and took me to the doctor. Also, I remember thinking I "should talk to my OB/GYN, I have some strange feelings" BUT, Mason was born just before the Andrea Yates tragedy, and IN MY mind, I thought if I went to the doctor, and told him anything, they would take my babies away. Of course, Andrea Yates suffered Post Partum Psychosis, which is very different from PPD. But, when you are "in" PPD, you don't think the way other people do.

In my case, I had a VERY traumatic delivery, which contributed to my PPD. My symptoms centered more around an inability to connect with my newborn. I KNEW he was my baby, and I loved him as such, but I was not making a connection with him. I was confused a lot of the time, and there were times when he was crying that I would actually think to myself "when is this baby's mother coming to get him?" Then, I would remember, he was MY baby. I felt more like Mason's babysitter, than his mother is the best way to put it. At no time did I think about doing him harm, and actually harming the baby itself is rare for women suffering PPD. More often than not, they will harm themselves first. Guilt and anxiety are a huge part of PPD. Of course I felt very guilty and inferior, but really had no idea what to do about it. When my husband described my symptoms to the doctor, he described me as "zombie like." No emotion, confused, detached, etc. It took a couple of trips to the doctor to get a proper diagnosis too. At first, they sent me to Mental Health, which really is not the place a PPD mother needs to be. Eventually, they sent me to a female OB/GYN who immediately diagnosed me for PPD, and began treatment. In this case she had me do yoga, and relaxation classes, to help me relax and get healthy again physically. Once I was feeling better physically, the emotional health followed and no medication was needed. I will tell you though, it is a long road, and can be very humiliating and frightening. But, in the end, it all worked out, Mason and I bonded as we should, and we got through it. Husbands, partners, and family members need to be informed about PPD symptoms, as many times (at least in my case) when a mother is "in it" she does not recognize her feelings and anxiety for what they are. DO NOT EVER let a doctor dismiss a mother's "feelings" as simple "baby blues." The consequences of such dismissive attitudes CAN be tragic.
When we got pregnant with Dayton, I had a new doctor, so immediately informed her of my past problems with PPD. She was able to monitor me more closely during pregnancy, and VERY closely after Dayton was born. Having your doctor "looking out for you" that way was very reassuring, and this time things are wonderful. PPD is STILL something that people almost seemed ashamed to talk about, and that is tragic. We will crow about a man's ability to achieve a great erection through erectile dysfunction medications, but nobody wants to talk about helping a mother experience the true joy of motherhood if she is suffering PPD and needs help....Pisses me off.
angela
Thursday, March 04, 2004 at 09:05:41 (EST)
Cherokee~Thanks for your post on PPD,although I have yet to experience it I know it will be perfectly normal if and when I do.Hope everything is going well with you at work.What are going to school for? I noticed you mentioned a homework break.

Shawanda~ Sorry about your daughter's pre-school experience. I work in a pre-school classroom and we would never make any assumptions in only a couple of days..especially if they have never experienced a school setting before. for first time pre-schoolers there really is no "normal" or "abnormal" behavior, every child is different.And usually if a child is having a hard time adjusting,it usually gets worse before it gets better. her teacher should know this.

Baby Ryan is doing great!I cant believe what a difference he has made in our lives! I just couldnt be happier.
Take care everyone.

Marie
Thursday, March 04, 2004 at 07:54:56 (EST)
Magarita-

I was going to take her out of the class until I spoke to a mom of an only child. She told me to hang in there. She said, "that eventhough the teachers will be relieved, it will only hurt my daughter's ability to learn proper socialization. She told me also that the teachers at the CDC said the same thing about her daughter; however, now at the age of 13, her daughter is a straight A student. I am encouraged now. She suggested that I go and observe the class as long as necessary to ensure the success of my child.

I just completed Finite Math. What math are you taking, statistics? I have 3 more courses to go before I am done with school (I attend Saint Leo University). The only classes that I must say that I really enjoyed were Western and Eastern Religions, Catholic Tradition, and my Religious Reformation course. The others were just academic requirements.

Choos
Shawanda
Thursday, March 04, 2004 at 07:37:27 (EST)
Good night ladies... I just finished taking a mid-term for my science class. I hope after she looks through it for corrections to the grade, that I did better than what the computer says I did - 85%. Last time there was a 10 + point improvement after she went in and looked for mis-grades, so I am hoping to have some improvement, at least. The good side is that I have been on top of all my class assignments and so far am only 3.5 points short of 100% in the class points possible.

Cherokee - I think one of the reasons that ppd isn't talked about is because moms feel guilty about having any negative feelings about their new "bundles of joy". I didn't feel sad about having a baby, but I felt very anxious about how I was going to take care of her. We had a small earthquake the first morning she was home, and then 3 months later, 9/11. I was freaked out about how we would keep her safe. Not to the point that I was irrational, but it consumed my thoughts and I just felt AFRAID.

Shawanda - So sorry your dd is having trouble at pre-school. I think it is probably just adjustment problems, as well, rather than actual problems that she has. I observed my pre-school teacher one day when my dd was not present (she would not have behaved "normally" if I had been there anyhow) and it made me understand what significance to put on what the teacher was saying because I saw first hand how she handled situations and saw what type of behavior was occuring in her classroom. If you could observe the class when your dd is not present, it might help you to evaluate what the teacher is saying. My daughter is having issues STILL about daycare, and it has been 4.5 months that she has been going. She did great at daycare, but she got too old and they moved her to the pre-school class (it was a gradual move and she knows most of the kids in there). SHe hasn't done well with that at all. She cries almost every day. I am only in class for one hour, my other classes are online. When I ask her why she cries, she tells me one of two things, that she was worried about me, or that the other kids made her cry (not the case according to her teacher, and I trust her teacher). I don't know what to do about it. I tell her how much fun pre-school is and we talk about it and how nice her teacher is, etc. Next quarter I will be on campus 4 hours a day :0( and not sure how that is going to go over. I sur ehope things improve, though. I was so ready to yank my dd out of daycare because the first 2 weeks were so hard - she cried her "monkey cries" the whole time I was in class. The teachers and director were completely understaning and encouraging, though, and that can make a world of difference. Best of luck! Do you have any other options?

Well, I have to go devote some time to my math homework now. I am only staying up for another hour though - I have an interview with a 6 member panel to get into that teachign program I want into tomorrow after class and I don't want to be dragging and tired for it.
Margarita
Thursday, March 04, 2004 at 03:12:24 (EST)
I think there is a perfect explanation for why we see advertisements for erectile dysfunction but nothing for women's severe depressions postpartum...

(1)Society (sorry guys) just plain places a higher value on male needs when women. (WOMYN heehee):0)For how long in both private practice and in the ER did docs treat men aggressively for MI and stroke, but with women, stood around scratching their heads and asses assuming that it was something "menopausal" or "female" that was causing arrythmia or or whatever else she had going on. For the longest time, women's acute cardiac issues were overlooked or just plain ignored. A strong statement about how society STILL views women and their healthcare issues.

(2)Let's face it. When we are pregnant, we all want to believe/feel/see ourselves as Mother Earth. Many women do not want to ADMIT that they are having feelings of depression, ambivalence, or even hostility towards their new baby, resentment towards their spouse and themselves, feelings of inadequacy. We have been raised to believe that all of these things are natural and just come with the package.

Fact is..motherhood is a very "tactile" trade. Meaning it takes quite a bit of hands on time to "get it right". Now..I've experienced feelings of inadequacy post-birth. Not to the point of what would be classified as post partum depression, but definitely "something" there. Bothering me. I found myself trying really hard to be very organized..very clean and meticulous, especially around the baby's things, and yes, re-reading (not reading, but looking through)baby books and manuals. (I was nodding "yes" when I was reading what you posted Kerri) I also had a hard time sleeping. The difference was, by the time I had my fourth baby..I just figured out that it was "just what I do" after I give birth...it subsided probably, oh, say, 2-3 weeks post partum. Then I was right as rain.

I was told by my family practice guy that it was just a little quirky thing I did after I had a baby and not to be alarmed. Many women feel this way, it was nothing to be ashamed of. He NEVER diagnosed it as post partum, He NEVER gave me medication to sleep...he just listened to me talk about why I thought I was feeling like that. This happened with each of my kids...even Esai. At the end of our talk he would hug me, say "you're a good Mother, everyone feels a little weird, look what your body has been through, all this responsibility etc, if you start thinking anything scary, like you want to not be around anymore or hurt yourself, or the baby..call me and we are going to talk some more.". That was it. I felt better when I left, and it went away. Of course, I just had feelings of inadequacy, which is why I was over-organizing everything..I didn't have those feelings of doom and treachery to the point where I would not want to be around anymore...maybe it just totally overwhelmed her and she didn't feel like she could talk about it. It can be..embarassing. Because we are made to feel like we should be this Ethereal Goddess in a flowing gown and perfect skin and our figures back in business, and breastfeed with ease and everything is perfect, when in reality, it isn't..it's hard. And doesn't come naturally for most women. It's just too much when there is an imbalance chemically as well. It would be interesting to see what her PET scan looked like.

Also, Kerri, when I worked Triage a couple of years ago...I remember a couple of different moms coming in with their 8 day old babies in the baby seats, crying (the moms)saying they didn't "feel right" and "something must be wrong"... They would say nothing else to the doc. Then I would say..."yeah I remember after I had my first (or second/third/fourth) kid...I was freaking out, I thought I had to know all of this stuff and I was freaking out because I didn't, I felt like an idiot yada yada yada.."they would just look at you like..OMG - she gets it. And then they would start talking. We would hook them up with a family counselor to help them out. Women just need to KNOW that it is OK and NORMAL to feel discombobulated (sp?) after birth. It should be shameful!! I can't BELIEVE some idiot doctor just sent her on her way with sleeping pills. And enough to do the job, on top of it. Shame on that doc.

Sorry this was so long winded..just felt like sharing that. Maybe some new mama feeling bad will read it and realize she isn't nuts, she just needs to give it some time. TC all..I GOTTA get back to my homework! :0)
Cherokee
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 23:56:23 (EST)
Went to the memorial today for that young girl who committed suicide this past weekend. Very sad. More information tells me that the night before she killed herself her husband brought her to the ER for help. Apparently she was acting very 'odd'...rereading breast feeding books, rearranging her closets over and over again. Her husband was concerned and brought her into the local (not mine) ER for evaluation at 1am. She was sent home with sleeping pills! The next morning she went for a walk to "clear her head" and was found later that afternoon. Now my question is...why on earth was she sent home when she was exhibting such odd behavior? In my ER everyone is admitted for practically everything!

I have personally never suffered from post partum depression, and therefore do not know the extreme emotions that go on. Have any of you ladies here experienced it? If so, what were your thoughts, dreams, fears, moods like?
This is really bothering me, especially seeing her husband and the innocent 10 day old baby.
Just an additional thought...I have seen 3 commercials for erectile dysfunction today and medications to "help"...yet post partum depression which affects millions of women yearly is kept hush hush. Why? I think the word needs to get out on this topic! Thank God she didn't harm the baby...
Kerri
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 22:41:16 (EST)
Is it just me, or was I totally repeating myself. I have GOT to remember to proofread my stuff. Sorry ladies :0(
Cherokee
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 21:46:12 (EST)
Taking a quick homework break to say hi!!

MARIE~Hey girl! I'm so glad that you and Ryan came through ok. I guess it's probably a good thing he was the size he was the size he was...you may have had to have a C-section! I'm sorry about the bone breaking issue...I hope you are on the mend (OUCH)! It is wonderful that JennyG was a great coach..you were blessed to have her there - she seems like a special person...feel better soon sweetie and give that baby boy a smooch from me!

Joyce~I wish you had the agency that we have in the States. It is called Child Care Resource and Referral. I was registered with them. You have to go through an extensive background check and fingerprinting clearance that is NATIONAL...and remain first aid/CPR certified. I was registered with them when I did daycare. It screens out most of the losers who just stick your kid in a bedroom or in front of the tv all day and take your check. And...I'm right there with ya girl and leaving your baby. All of my older kids were in daycare...but we were committed that if I returned to work, we worked opposite shifts so the two younger ones wouldn't be in daycare. Well, I need to sleep during the day..when I have worked an overnight shift from 7p-730a...and then have to work 7p-730a the next night, I GOTTA sleep, so we looked at nanny/housekeeper types and had NO luck. We have made the decison to go the daycare route at a local preschool, only on the days where I have back-to-back shifts. Well, I'm having SUCH a time getting past this issue. I think I have mother guilt. I don't know why, I'm home all the time, and spend GOOD time with my kids...but it is there. I interviewed a couple of home providers already. Some of these people - sheesh. There is more accountability I think in a pre-school setting. I get where you are coming from. It sounds like you are doing the right thing, being straight with her teacher. Hope it all works out for you!

Hey Angela, Margarita..Julie, Traci, Lyne and everybody...forum sure is quiet..but..nice. :0) TC everyone!
Cherokee
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 21:44:52 (EST)
This is the Diet pills place that never buy Vioxx for a couple of days. Dont ever Phentermine Plus, you can always Ultram.
buy Tramadol
email: me@me.com
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 19:17:10 (EST)
Hi Everyone!
As you know Ryan Patrick was born 2/27/04, 6 lbs. 14 ounces.20"inches.
I was induced at 8:30 that morning and delivered at 6:09 PM.
It was quite an experience I must say, I recieved an epidural at 1PM and they had to turn the drip off right when it came time to push I believe I was 8cm at that time.
He really had a hard time coming through, they needed to use the Vacumm and I ended up splitting my pelvic bone due to pushing..I must say it was more painful then I ever imagined..Jennyg was there for the whole experience and I have to say I dont know what I would have done without her support she was so wonderful and supportive that I could type all night what a difference she really made.DH was there but, having your best girlfriend there made it so much more comforting to me.
I told Jennyg she should look into becoming a doula.

Anyway,Ryan was well worth every ache and pain! I just love him SO much!!!
I feel like I have known him all my life.
Thank you all for thinking of us!
I have not read the archives yet..I will try
Marie
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 18:22:20 (EST)
Shawanda- I'm sorry! That is very hard! I did home day care once too. I only took one child. I have always felt that when I am watching a child that they love their children as much as I love mine, so I need to take good care of them!
I hope you find something that works!
traci
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 16:38:15 (EST)
Violence???
traci
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 16:34:13 (EST)
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email: me@me.com
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 16:27:45 (EST)
You're right Cherokee. I shouldn't place that type of "label" on all care providers. I'm just a little frustrated right now. You know? No one loves my child more than her dad and I and God. I just want the absolute best that life can offer her, and I don't want people to label my child. I think that I made this very clear to her teacher.
Shawanda
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 16:27:11 (EST)
Shawanda...

I understand your fear of not placing Joyce with a pricate provider, but not all FCC's are sinister. I was a private a child care provider for about a year, and I treated each child like they were MY baby. There are a lot of us "good ones" out there too.:0) JMHO
Cherokee
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 16:00:43 (EST)
Julie-

I wanted to give the American school a try first. They have FCC (which is a family care provider). She will be in the private home of a provider. No way; you've seen the awful things these people do to the children when they know that no one is watching, so that's a definite no.

Then, there is German kindergarten (that's what they call our pre-school). You don't get into pre-school in Germany until your about 5 (pre-schooled-you get it?) Not only is Germany is a socialist society, but it also practice classism. They test the child for motor, social, language, self-help, and something else that I don't remember at the time. Doing this is supposed to show where the child is developmentally. If the child scores high, they groom the child to go to the gymnasium (top school). If the child scores so-so they are placed in another category. God forbid the child scores low, he or she is damned to doing menial jobs for the rest of their life. I am not joking; I was told this by the German woman who does my nails. She said that this is how she became and manicurist. Unbelievable huh? But it's true, according to her. So, German school is out. If this doesn’t work out, I am going to do to what I’ve been doing for the past 3years, teaching her at home.

Well, enough of my "momma drama.”

Shawanda
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 15:52:49 (EST)
nope, not up for lots of violence.
sonya
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 14:46:15 (EST)
>They suggested that I speak to someone about her socialization skills.

Wow! They obviously have no clue about how a normal 3 year old child behaves. If it was me, I would be looking for a new preschool.
Julie
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 13:36:43 (EST)
Shawanda ~ I would find out just what kind of credentials and experience this teacher has as well. If she is fairly new at being a preschool teacher, she may have some very unrealistic expectations.
Preschool children cannot be expected to know what they are supposed to do or how they are supposed to behave after only two days. It will take time for her to learn the routine and what is expected of her. It sounds like the teacher doesn't understand what to expect from a 3 year old.
Julie
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 13:32:50 (EST)
Hi everyone! Thought I would pop in say hey to everyone.

Baby boy is down for a nap and still sick..not sleeping well due to a nasty cough but he is getting better!

Shawanda~uggghh. I was sad when I read your post. Whe do teachers think they can make assumptions like this after a few days. My guess is Joyce's issue is just separation from Mama...and it will resolve with time. Soon she is going to see how much "fun" she is going to have at school and she will ditch you at the door LOL! :0)

I had a lot of trouble with my Madison in 1st grade...her teacher INSISTED that she was special needs and shouldn't be mainstreamed into the regular class because she was learning disabled. She wasn't reading, refused to recognized her alphabet and numbers, she couldn't add, etc etc etc...I received (I'm not kidding) at least 3 bad reports per week. My daughter went from loving school and heading out the door each morning, to me dragging her out of bed every day, getting her dressed, and pushing her through the door at school. It was heartbreaking. I good/bad teacher makes all the difference. Funny, when I pulled her out of school to homeschool her, she was reading within THREE WEEKS, and now adds, subtracts, and even knows some of her multiplication tables. In 1st grade. In my experience, the teacher REFUSED to even listen to what I was trying to tell her about Maddi..she knew everything and I was an uneducated idiot. Her husband was also the Vice Principal. So I didn't have many options. She is very happy now. I hope your girl's teach is willing to work with you. She is only a baby still - what is up with this global "attention span" thing with teachers now anyway???

I hope it works out for you! Preschool and school in general can be such a happy time for kids.
Cherokee
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 13:13:05 (EST)
Shawanda.. Only 2 days in preschool and this is the reaction from the teacher? Wow. I agree with Dallas & Angela. Maybe there is some separation anxiety too, and maybe that is why she is being somewhat aggresive. It might be her way of expressing herself at this time, especially not knowing anyone. I agree that you should talk to the teacher, and if shes a good one, with preschool children, you will both be able to work through this. I also think it might be good for you to watch her in class, but dont let Joyce know you are there, so you can see for yourself without her knowing you are there, because then she will act differen if mommy is present. Doesnt sound like she has a problem sitting still to me, Im thinking its her way of learning to adjust to a very new situation. Good luck sweetie!!
Lyne
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 13:10:51 (EST)
Dallas-

I just read your message. I am going to do exactly what you've suggested. The director told me that sometimes the teachers doesn't have patience with children; therefore, they immediately attach a "label" on them. Thanks for the advice.

I also wonder ,as you mentioned in your post, if it is perhaps seperation anxiety? When I walk in the class she tells everyone bye and get's ready to put on her coat. I'm so frustrated! Yikes!! How can anyone decide in two days that your child is not adjusting? Right? UUUHHH!

One last thing- They suggested that I speak to someone about her socialization skills. What?! I can't believe it. They even had one of the ladies come by and try to "observe" her, but they kind of pulled back because her dad is a Colonel (not boasting just stating what I was told). One of the providers mentioned that they don't want to make waves like that. Well, LEAVE MY BABY ALONE!

O.k...sorry for venting here.

Choos
Shawanda
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 12:57:30 (EST)
Thanks for the advice ladies. The director of the CDC has known my family for a while (well before there was a Joyce anyway :). Joyce does throw tantrums when she has to share, but I think that's because she's an only child and there's no one here to share with-you get my point. I'm in Germany and so, her family members are not around to play with. Also, there aren't many Senior Officers (none at all) with children Joyce's ages. Not meaning that she can only play with the children in my neighborhood. I need to do to more for her to ensure that she has children in her peer group, but there is no Gymboree here. What is a mom to do?! And yes, I must admit the teacher says that she's starting to hit. She's never done that, really. I spoke to her teacher and told her that we need to make this a joint effort and need to work together. I also told her that whatever she needs from me I am willing to do. Like, require that Joyce sits for at least a couple of minutes to do an activity. Now, when it comes to watching Tom and Jerry she can sit down until the cartoon goes off, and dares anyone to turn the channel. She immediately tells her dad and me, "turn that back!" I need to do something about that type of behavior, I guess. Ladies, I'm learning. I will never raise her in the type of strict environment in which I was raised. I want her to have the freedom to be expressive; yet, have self-control and self-discipline.

Am I asking too much from a 3 year old?

Lyne- Guess what? She's only been in the class for 2 days. Her first day was Monday. She's never been in pre-school before. I use to go to Gymboree with her to the playgroups, but this is the first time that she's ever been without her mommy in eye-shot.
Shawanda
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 12:41:53 (EST)
Shawanda-

I hate to hear what's being said about your baby girl. When the teacher informed of the "aggressive" behavior, did she sound condescending, or was she being quite matter of fact? There could also be a side of Joyce that you might not've seen...Maybe it's separation anxiety?

Either way, work with the teacher. If she's a good teacher, she'll be open and willing to work with you in order to make your daughter's school experience more pleasant. If she just continues to pigeon-hole her as some aggressive pre-school man-eater, well, you might want to get her into a different class or pre-school. The teacher is obviously not good for her.

Wouldn't hurt to sit in and observe the class as well...My mother used to do that whenever she got a questionable report from my teacher. 95% of the time, it was the teacher having no patience with me.

Hope this helps.

God Bless!


Dallas
email: shortbiscuit83@aol.com
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 12:23:54 (EST)
Shawanda~Yippy! Pre-school.=) You may want to talk to Joyce's teacher and reiterate that you want to make this the best possible experience for your daughter, so what advice does she(the teacher) have for you as a parent to help in the process? I have found that teacher's react well to involved parents, and they usually want to work WITH you and your child to enable the child to have the best experience possible. Try to make this a team effort, and as hard as it is (and girl, I know it is hard!) try not to take it too personally if the teacher seems to "criticize" your baby. P.S. Girls NEED to be assertive in our world today! There is nothing wrong with assertiveness.=)
angela
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 09:47:34 (EST)
Shawanda.. Hi :) Sorry to hear about the trouble in Joyce's preschool already. Sheesh, shes only been going for what, 2 weeks at the most? I would say she is trying to adhust to a really new situation. What does the teacher consider aggresive? Is she hitting, slapping, biting? And, the attention span of a * just turned 3 yr old * isnt that long, I dont believe. I have a son, and hes in preschool. He has never been aggresive, even at home or at his sitters, and hes never had a problem sitting still for anything that is going on... but, I hear people ALL the time labeling boys & girls. People tell me all the time that my son is very quiet and shy, and go on to tell me that it is unusual for boys his age to be that way, then , in the same breath, when a boy child is acting up * its normal behavior because its a boy thing *.. but when a girl acts up, they are hyper or something. I agree with you. I would go in and talk to the teacher about this, because if Joyce picks up that this teacher doesnt like her or doesnt have patience for her, she will pick up on it, and her behavior might get worse. And, your little one doesnt need someone labeling her, especially someone who has only known her for a very short period of time. Sorry for the ramble, I just would really look into it soon, I wouldnt let it go. Hi's to everyone :)
Lyne
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 09:43:21 (EST)
Sorry for the typos...

I meant "transgressions" and "they said that she "won't" sit down".
Shawanda
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 08:39:43 (EST)
Julie-

I'm glad you know what I mean. Not shout for joy, but for the love that He has for me to endure such pain. My favorite scripture is that, "he was wounded for our tragressions, he was bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement of our peace was upon Him and with His stripes we are healed." I don't know about you, but I'll tell you I am sooo grateful for His sacrifice for me! I love Jesus so much and I haven't seen the movie, but I already know what He's done in my life and how He brought me through a mighty nights that were dark and gray. God is sooo good! If I had ten thousand tongues I couldn't thank Him enough for His loving kindness, grace and mercy towards me.

I love Him. Yes, I am a Jesus fanatic! Sold out and on fire for the Lord!

That's not why I came to the board. Hmm...(kinda got caught up in the worship) Anyway, I need help from Mothers of Preschoolers. My Joyce just turned 3 on the 24th of February. I just put her in part-day pre-school this past Monday. I don't know if she is adjusting yet, but it seems as if the teacher is already trying to label her. They say that she want sit down, she wonders around the class, and that she is aggressive. I wonder why when girls are assertive, it is seen as aggressive behavior, but when boys are assertive or even aggressive it is often said, "they are just been boys." If anyone have any suggestions please help me. Joyce is my first and only child. I want to make school enjoyable for her, but I'm trying not to take the teacher's assessment personal. What would any of you suggest? Email me if you'd like.
Shawanda
email: rshawanda@hotmail.com
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 08:35:56 (EST)
Shawanda ~ This isn't the kind of movie where you shout "Praise God!" (I get what you mean though.) When the movie was over everyone just sat in silence, wiping their tears, trying to collect themselves. You become very introspective and serious after watching this movie. When you are watching it, just like Margarita wrote, you want to shout "No! Stop it!"

Randy ~ While I understand how you feel, I strongly urge you to see this movie. There is much, much more to this movie than just violence. The violent scenes only make up about a fourth of the movie. As for the news being violent, you don't have to watch it, dear. I know I don't because it breaks my heart.
Julie
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 07:50:41 (EST)
Exactly Margarita!! It is hard to put into words!!
The violence was totally necessary and real! It was what he endured for us, and why should we down play it?
I thought it was made perfectly!
traci
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 01:52:03 (EST)
I just returned home from watching The Passion, and I will tell you that words are inadequate to describe this movie.

As a film, it is easy to describe. The cinematography is wonderful, it is very tactile, the shots are interesting, et, etc. But no way can you talk about this film as "just a movie".

Historically, well as best as I know it appears accurate. It has prompted my interest in studying more about Pilate and the governmental hiarchies of that time.

Emotionally, well, it is just to personal for me to put into words. I will do my best to never take my life for granted again. Seeing the act of what He suffered for us before my eyes, flinching with each blow, and crying at the brutality of it and the love Christ has for us that is portrayed through his suffering... nothing I can say will properly explain how I feel.

I know that "the joy comes in the morning" and yes I do feel joy at the eternal life of Christ, BUT I was hard pressed to keep from shouting out "NO" and "STOP" during the movie. I had to keep telling myself that it was the will of God, and the path to eternal life but it didn't make it any easier to watch.

For those of you who have heard it is way too violent - yes it is violent. But it is a real violance, not a make-believe violence. I think that witnessing the violence of this movie will humble all mature viewers and possibly cause less violence. Does that even make sense? If you believe in Jesus Christ, then please don't miss the movie because you think it will be too violent. This is an opportunity to see the real sacrifice that was made for each of us.

After watching it, here is my opinion of the anti-semetism question. Absolutely not. Yes, it is portrayed that the majority of the Jewish community wanted Him dead, but it was also portrayed that some of the Jewish community were against His crucifixion. And in the end, Jesus explains it all when he says "Father... forgive them. They know not what they do".

Goodnight.
Matgarita
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 at 00:57:51 (EST)
No way will I see it. I heard it is way violent. Not into that. I get enough of that on the news.

Randy
Randy
Tuesday, March 02, 2004 at 23:20:01 (EST)
I'm glad that those who saw it was pleased.

I heard Franklin Graham talking about how great of a movie it was. I am so pleased that Mel Gibson took such a faith leap, and I would really like to see this movie.

I don't think that I have the fortitude to not shout and praise God in the theatre (I'm just that kind of a believer; honey, I'll shout in a minute!) I am just so grateful for the sacrifice that Christ made for me (I always make it personal; eventhough I know He did it for mankind). yet, while I was a sinner He endure the cross for me. It brings tears to my eyes just to think that He loved me that much! um um um um My Lord! Well, let me go because I feel a shout coming on!


Shawanda
Tuesday, March 02, 2004 at 16:16:10 (EST)
Angela- HEY!!! Try to buy tickets online at fendango.com, they print out of your computer, and then you don't have to stand in line!
traci
Tuesday, March 02, 2004 at 14:39:11 (EST)
My husband and I both went and saw this this past Saturday night. It was amazing. Never before have I ever been so moved by a film. In the Bible and in the stories we read as children, the crucifixion just seems like this "unpleasant" thing...The Passion made it real for everyone. I'm happy to say that it "renewed" my faith in God in many, many ways.

Kudos to Mel Gibson. He stood up for his faith and God has blessed this film.


Dallas
email: shortbiscuit83@aol.com
Tuesday, March 02, 2004 at 14:01:18 (EST)
I have already seen it. I wanted to see it because reading about what Jesus went through and seeing it is very different. But with this movie, you don't just see it. It's as close as you can get to experiencing what he went through. And the great thing about the way the movie was done, you don't just see Jesus's experience, but you see what the experiences were of the Disciples, Mary Magdelene, Mary mother of Jesus, and Pontius Pilate. This movie touched me on so many different levels.
Julie
Tuesday, March 02, 2004 at 13:27:03 (EST)
I will definitely see it sometime. I'm sure it will strengthen my faith. I will probably get the DVD when it comes out also. I've heard a lot of good things about the movie and that it is very accurate. I think that it will help me to better understand what Jesus chose to endure so that we as humans can have the choice of Eternal Life or Damnation.
SH
Tuesday, March 02, 2004 at 12:19:52 (EST)
I would love to if I can find someone to watch my kiddo! My sister saw it and said that it was very well done.
Riley's Mom
Tuesday, March 02, 2004 at 11:00:39 (EST)
I most definitely will be seeing The Passion, but may have to wait until it comes out on video. We only have two theatres in our area, and one of them is not even showing The Passion, and the other one is showing it, but not allowing advance ticket sales. I don't have all day to wait in the long lines, but I would not want to arrange for a sitter (no easy thing in our small community) only to get to the window and have the showing sold out. So, I really would like to see this movie, but I think I'm going to end up having to wait a bit.
angela
Tuesday, March 02, 2004 at 09:48:05 (EST)
Most definately. I think it will be a life changing experience for alot of people, or so I have heard. I cant wait :)
Lyne
Tuesday, March 02, 2004 at 08:13:01 (EST)
Yes, I will see it as soon as I possibly can. I will see it because I am a visual learner, and although I have read about the crucifixion of Christ in the Bible, I don't believe I have a realistic idea of what happened. I would like to see the visual outcome that has resulted from the research done in making the movie. I am quite confident that viewing the movie will motivate me to research the crucifixion on my own, and will be bring about a greater understanding of Christ's love for us.
Margarita
Tuesday, March 02, 2004 at 02:32:38 (EST)
UH-OH!!! This will definatly bring on the heat..LOL

I have already seen it! I thought it was very well done. I would recommend others to see it also.
traci
Tuesday, March 02, 2004 at 01:10:03 (EST)
Yes, If they show it here I will go to see it.
Shawanda
Tuesday, March 02, 2004 at 01:09:22 (EST)