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Welcome to the Sound Off Discussion Board, where parents from all walks of life and all parts of the world come together in one place to share their opinions and thoughts about the question of the week. Please remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion and the freedom to express it. Obscene posts are unwelcome and shall be removed from the board. Please keep in mind that this is a public board. Never post personal information that you would be uncomfortable sharing with others. Comments about this board should be sent to iParenting's Webmaster. Thank you for contributing! If you have a suggestion for the question of the week, send it to feedback@iparenting.com.
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Post your question or add an answer here.
I have two children and would not even think of abusing them in any way! My sons are 7 & 10 and are the best behaved children i've ever come across, and i'm not being biased either!
I have raised my children to respect people and taught them right from wrong, BUT i have never, ever hit them. There is absolutely no need too.
Darlene
email: momoftwo@post.com
Monday, October 07, 2002 at 21:54:01 (EDT)
For all of you that are so LAX about Ms. Toogood's actions, ought to think real hard about the fact that she was in a PUBLIC parking lot and did this! If she did this in public, what the heck is she doing when there are no cameras on her? This sort of anger towards children leads to the most horrible cases of abuse. Some are accidental when you go overboard, some are intentional. Either way, unless it's reported somehow, these children have no protection. It's sad, these little people are sooo precious when they are born, (and even so they are still abused, even killed at that age), but when they start walking, and start displaying their own individuality, they get punished in the worst ways possible. People need to wake up and realize how bad of and epidemic child abuse really is. Please visit this site if you have time: http://www.dayofthechild.org/
Thank you
Juli Pirwitz
email: ptite1@aol.com
Monday, October 07, 2002 at 16:57:25 (EDT)
Generally, the level of abuse witnessed in this tape indicates that there has been some form of abuse going on for a period of time. Usually beginning with verbal and escalating to physical. This can happen slowly or rapidly. Regardless, the priority MUST be to protect the child BEFORE the parent's rights. Every chance given to an abuser is one less chance given to the child.
kristi
Monday, October 07, 2002 at 16:52:31 (EDT)
I have been reading much of what has been response to this complex issue; I agree with one of the posts -- 99% of us would probably be mortfied had we been filmed at one time or another during one of our least composed moments. I'd even wager to say a fair percent writing about this case might have elicited intervention from the appropriate authorities. I was literally chilled to watch the footage of abusive mother; She WAS being abusive, period. She needs major help. So does this child! Thank God she is safe at the time-being; I pray the authorities keep her safe in the future. This mother will eventually get her daughter back; but she faces a long,harrowing ordeal; as she should. I, too, was abused [@ times, severely; from age 8 to 18 after my prents divorced] I was even [finally] taken from my mother, after I literally ran for my life; As I said, I was taken & charged with being an unruly child [though hospitalized! preceding the hearing! with a concussion, mutiple lacerations, bruises, etc.] *I* was charged. I never once struck back; nor did I attempt to defend myself later @ MY trial!! I was awe-struck & still terrified what she would do, think, etc. Here's the catch - though I still harbor resentment [yes some at her, but mostly the system!!] She is STILL the only mother I have! Today we are fine. We do not discuss the past. I went thru my 20's in a mental shambles, but GOT help! After God knows HOW many generations of chronic abuse, I have broken the cycle with my kids. I don't even spank, ever, I'm too afraid of what could evolve if I did. Ihad to learn what being a mom was. So does this mom. and she is still the only mother Martha has. I love my mother & only wish she had gotten help for what was broken inside her long before my birth. @ 60,she still has demons to bear - I am not close to my Grandma as a result. Ironic, I guess. She too endured unspeakable abuse. God had a hand in the cameras rolling that day with Toogood; I pray they all get help.
Kelley, 35, mother of 4
Monday, October 07, 2002 at 16:07:16 (EDT)
What is wrong with you people it dosent matter if her hand was open or closed you don't act that way towards a child who is only going to learn from you, if your children push you that far maybey you should stop and look at the way you are rasing them, and the way that you treat them. She shold get in a car and let someone three times her size beat her the way that she did her child and then ask her what she thinks about them not being able to return a pair of jeans that she had no control over. No matter how you look at it its wrong and shouldn't of happenend if we allow her to get away with it what hope are we giving to the children who are serioulsey hurt every day? None we are at that point telling them that there is no hope for them to ever see justice.
Angela
Monday, October 07, 2002 at 15:24:08 (EDT)
What is worong with you people it dosent matter if her hand was open or closed you don't act that way towards a child who is only going to learn from you, if your children push you that far maybey you should stop and look at the way you are rasing them, and the way that you treat them. She shold get in a car and let someone three times her size beat her the way that she did her child and then ask her what she thinks about them not being able to return a pair of jeans that she had no control over. No matter how you look at it its wrong and shouldn't of happenend if we allow her to get away with it what hope are we giving to the children who are serioulsey hurt every day? None we are at that point telling them that there is no hope for them to ever see justice.
Angela
Monday, October 07, 2002 at 15:23:50 (EDT)
I've read just about every post on this message board. And honestly its nerve racking to know that people are trying to make up some excuse for what that no-good mother did to her child. I'm going to be a mother in less than a month, didnt expect to ever be blessed with a child, but God blessed me with my daughter, McKayla. I do believe in discipline, but there is a limit to that. In no way do I believe that, that woman was beating a seat, why on earth would you look around to see if anyone was around to beat a seat??? A pop on the butt is enough to get a childs attention. I dont think she should ever see her daughter again. No one who beats their child to that extent deserves children. But after all there were no bruises on that child, but I dont bruise much. Especially open handed. But that makes it sound like I know she did it open handed. Just watch the vid...and think about the way she was swinging her hand. Looks to me like open hand...personally.
Marie
Monday, October 07, 2002 at 13:00:00 (EDT)
Ive posted my day on this topic already, however, I cannot believe Jayne honestly think that his was not abuse?! Miss Toogood even said on national tv that she went overboard. I have NEVER went overboard discilining my kids. The repeated smacking and punching then pulling hair is not discipline..
sorry ladies, I just cannot believe some people think this is okay. Why hasnt the father stepped up and said what a good mother she is? I havent heard anybody defend this woman, not at all. Emotional scars are just as bad as physical.
Missy
Monday, October 07, 2002 at 12:11:15 (EDT)
I don't think that this women deserves to go to jail. Let's really think about the situation. I really like what the lady from NE Florida (I think) said. Sometimes things are not as bad as they look.
Did we really see this woman punch her child? I didn't! because her body covered the entrance of the SUV. I only saw her hand go up. And do we actually know if she hit her really hard? Or did the camera make it appear to be so?
Quick story: I went to Filene's and started to try on a blouse. I left one blouse in the dressing room and took the other to be purchased. I went back to the rack to change the size of the blouse.
The blouse I changed had a print on it that made it appear that I had more than 1 blouse. I was followed out of the store and asked by the security guard to step back into the store (because he had been watching it all on a CAMERA). Low and behold, he went to the dressing room to find that I had only had two blouses (1 in the dressing room and 1 that I purchased). There was no third blouse.
Moral of the story. You only believe half of what you see and nothing that you hear.
I know that at one point when my kids were young (they are now 13 and 17) I would get so upset that I was almost to the point of Ms. Toogood. So surely I can't sit here and be judegmental of this woman. I can't cast any stones because I am not without sin.
Brooklyn Mom
Monday, October 07, 2002 at 12:07:32 (EDT)
The mother has a right to discipline her daughter. God gave us a place to administer
spankings and the head, legs, arms, and torso are not the place to spank. She needs some kind of anger management classes and parenting class before her daughter is handed back to her.
J Collins
email: collinsj@wcde.org
Monday, October 07, 2002 at 11:35:23 (EDT)
Please don't blame the media. If it wasn't for the beating being caught on tape - this mom might be still beating her daughter. Blame the mom - for not controlling her temper and using her superior strength to discipline her child.
Cynthia
email: clynn955@fox.com
Fl USAMonday, October 07, 2002 at 11:03:47 (EDT)
the child had no bruses or injuries, so leave the poor woman alone. people have a right to discipline their children the way they feel is right. obviously she did not hurt the child, or there would have been marks. im sure everyone on this board at one time or another would be Totally Mortified if they had been caught on tape in an unsuspecting moment. think about it.
jayne
Monday, October 07, 2002 at 10:40:51 (EDT)
I just read many of the comments from people. WOW!! and we wonder why our society is living in a such a violent atmosphere?? To say " media made it out to be worse than it was"? HELLO???!!!! This woman repeatedly beat this little girl, pulling her hair and slapping her while her sister, aunt of this innocent baby, was on the opposite side of the suv, and did nothing?? COME ON PEOPLE!!! What could a child ever do to deserve that? I am one of 5 children and boy did we ever put my parents to the test in the nerve department. But good lord, they never ever raised a hand to us like that. All you do by "slapping a hand" or a "pop on the butt" is teach kids it's ok to hit. Then wonder why they get expelled from school for fighting? Raising kids can be very frustrating. But, to beat a child and say it wasn't that bad? How do you suppose this little girl is going to grow up socially? emotionally unscarred? Probably not, but one can only hope. And yes I do have children. I have a wonderful son and 2 step children. Never have I raised a hand to anyone of them. You reach your boiling point! We all have. Walk away!!! Toogood? What a name for her. She think she's too good for our system that she can get away with beating that little girl? I surely hope our justice system lets her know..ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!
furious
Monday, October 07, 2002 at 10:19:19 (EDT)
I am a first time mom and know what it is like to lose my temper. I have a two yr old daughter going through the typical terrible two's. I also work full time and sometimes the stress of work and home does get to me. Whenever I feel like I am losing my temper, I do have the sense to stop and think of what I am doing before reacting. I have hit my daughter for doing what she shouldn't be doing, but have never beat her. Just a slap on the hand to get her attention works just fine, then a nice talk afterward on what she has done wrong. That woman had plenty of time to calm down while she was walking to her car, and looking around to make sure no one was watching what she was "PLANNING" on doing. There is absolutely no excuse for that. Jail and a foster home is not the answer. That woman needs both parenting and anger management classes and learn to think before she acts because something like that can affect a child for like. Stop the abuse cycle now while you still can because abused children tend to grow up to be abusers unless there is intervention early.
Shannon
email: shannon114@dbt.net
Monday, October 07, 2002 at 10:05:37 (EDT)
I think these men or women who beat thier children should 1st be put in a public place so anyone who wants to take a punch at them can. Let them know what it feels like to be beaten and can't stop it. They shouldn;t get thier kids back! They do it once, it will happen again. I for one can't have any more children. I was fortunate enough however to have one. Give these abused children a home where they'll be loved and cherished, as they deserve
Dawn
email: lil2cute_99@yahoo.com
Monday, October 07, 2002 at 10:05:07 (EDT)
First of all let me say I found alot of the messages to be contrived purely out of emotion, Not a good idea when you are judging someone elses actions! Now then I am the wife of a Deputy Sheriff in our county, I frequently go on ride alongs and have personally been there several times while my husband and social services removed children from a home it is not a pretty site but always warranted. We don't really know exactly what happened in that truck, if this woman really did punch her child as it most certainly appears, the child will most likely have marks on her. Also in the event that a child is frequently abused you will have signs of this, as the other woman said it could be in the form of old broken bones,but also bruises, unhealed cuts,scars etc. Children tend to understand even at a very young age if they are abused, granted not the way we would understand it but when interviewed by a child psycologist kids have a way of expressing abuse. These are all things that the investigators are going to use when presenting their case against this woman. As far as my opinion on this matter I honestly don't feel that I am qualified to make a judgement just yet for one main reason, I know for a fact there was one occation in which onlookers would have thought that both my husband and I were abusers. My 4 yr old daughter and my 2 yr old daughter were both in the back seat of my (go figure) SUV we were going down the road and my 2 yr old suddenly screamed bloody murder, I turned in my seat to see what was wrong and my husband pulled into the parking lot of a grocery store. My 4yr old had bitten her sisters arm and drew blood. might I add VERY unusual behavior for her as she is really well mannered. Any way I got out of the truck and went around to her side with every intention of spanking her little butt, but in the process of opening the truck door got my finger caught in the door handle cutting myself pretty badly, my husband got out to see if I was ok then proceeded to spank my daughter several times on her bottom, meanwhile I really started to feel my hand because I was ranting and raving in the parking lot, and yes as unusual as it is for me I was swearing, words I hadn't said since my oldest was born (it was a pretty bad cut) anyway the point to my story is imagine if someone had walked up just as my husband was spanking our daughter.....they would have seen a woman yelling, and cussing, heard a 2 yr old still crying loudly cause her arm hurts, seen a man bent over into an SUV making swatting motions with his arm at an unseen child and heard a 4 yr old crying cause her fanny now hurts......now I of course don't beat my children and only spank them when they hurt someone else intentionally or are doing something that will get them hurt, but you can imagine how it must have looked to a passerby.........This is why I feel we should await word on exactly what happened in the SUV as well as information regarding whether or not their is a history of Domestic Violence or child abuse. Oh and by the way to the woman who mentioned that the family is part of a culture in which husbands abuse wives and wives in turn abuse children, in todays society how can you be so naive, if you look back at all the misconceptions about groups of people, one alone should dicredit these types of stereotypes for you....Women weren't allowed to vote because it was thought we weren't capable of making that kind of informed decision.
Everyone have a good day.
NE Florida Mom
email: angel_mommy@hotmail.com
Monday, October 07, 2002 at 01:51:06 (EDT)
I hope the judge forces her into anger management counseling, but also regular therapy. Just modifying her behavior won't change the fundamental issues that are troubling her. What really caused her rage? It surely wasn't all the child. I don't say go soft. I don't feel sorry for her, either. I just think it won't make a bad situation better to split up their family until she proves incapable of change.
tracy cristiano
email: papagallobella@aol.com
Sunday, October 06, 2002 at 21:43:48 (EDT)
I believe that this womens child should be put in a home of a family member while her mother gets parenting classes and anger manegement classes. The child should stay in this home until a judge says that it is alright for her to return to her mother. I don't beleive the this women should serve any jail time for what she did. There are times when we all get stressed out and lose our tempers. I know that this does not justify what she did, but I beleive that everyone should get a second chance.
Christina Austin
email: arakasi@kconline.com
Sunday, October 06, 2002 at 17:44:43 (EDT)
I think that she would not go without punishment, but putting her in jail is not the answer. I think they to serously counsel her and gradually put her back with her child. I do not think this should be immediate at all, but sending her to jail and putting the child is a foster home is not going to help either one. A child needs her mother and the mother needs to learn how to be a mother. Beleive it or not, motherhood is not a natural instinct that all women today are born with. We used to have mothers and grandmothers how lived close enough to teach them how to be a mom. Now young women are become mothers without any clue to what they are doing.
Was she wrong by beating her child? Absolutely. No one should ever do that to their child. Should she never see her child again? I don't think so.
Reyanna Mozingo
email: oshortblondeone@yahoo.com
Sunday, October 06, 2002 at 15:35:24 (EDT)
honestly, i think that woman should burn in hell!!!
someone
Sunday, October 06, 2002 at 13:05:15 (EDT)
Ummm...sorry everyone, I posted my opinion in the wrong place, so I am copying and pasting it here with an added footnote. I'm a newbie so please forgive the goof-up.
This was my note: Hi everyone. I have a comment about the videotape of that *mother* beating her child. I am the custodial mother of an abused child.His natural parents selfishness came way before him. It is time for society and governing officials to get off the crying towel gig for the perpetrators and really protect the innocent children. I have no sympathy for a mother like that. She looked to see if anyone was watching and took the time to put the child into the vehicle first. Plenty of time to calm herself. But no, she beat that child in a confined space and when that wasn't enuf, after the child was contained in the carseat, she beat her again. That child and all children should be protected from her and all other parents like her for life! This idiotic practice of having parent's like that go to parenting classes and anger management and then letting them loose on the children again is nuts and only perpetrates the problem. Yes, they should get treatment, but they should also get a good long stiff sentence and they should never get their children back. How many times do we have to hear.."Oh, I'm so sorry, I took anger management but I just slipped." We all make mistakes in parenting but beating a child is not a mistake, it's a choice. A mistake is not training your child to pick up his/her toys or making his bed. We are the ones that suffer those consequences. When the child suffers physical and mental harm and we allow it by lackadaisial law protection and feeling sorry for the perpetrator because he/she has all kinds of excuses for doing what they did, shame on us!! Btw, did anyone hear what kind of physical condition that child was in? That was pretty severe and I'd almost bet with some x-rays, there would be old broken bones showing up. I pray for that poor little angel and all others in her position. There are so many. There are also many good, caring, would be parents out there that cannot have their own children.I think most of society is sick of this kind of disgusting treatment of our most precious gifts and resource. It is time for our lawmakers to get their heads out of the sand and do their job. Protect our children! It's in the international children's rights!!!
Bonnie
email: prettylady1@look.ca
Sunday, October 06, 2002 at 02:57:19 (EDT)) As an addition, I would like to say that many people here have tried to intelectualize what has happened to the child and again we see the feel sorry for the perpetrator attitude that has so prevailed in North America for a long time now. I was raised as a very abused child but when I became an adult I made a CHOICE not to be an abuser. Do you really believe that that woman was beating the seat? My God, no wonder our children are so poorly cared for in one of the richest societies in the world. That seems to follow along the same line as when a small child is raped and the prosecution claims that the child was precocious and therefore the rapist could not help himself. Children do not ask to be beaten or abused in anyway. Even id the mother was hitting the seat, any child or adult trapped in that situation would be in horrific terror. Do you really believe that even that is allowable? I have raised many children without abusing them and guess what? They are fine productive human beings with good self esteem and loving hearts. Yes, it's hard but it can be done. The trick is not in the discipline, it is getting into your child's world. Does a 4 yr old know that it is wrong to whine and walk away in a store? Not really. In some sense they do because they have been told, but their world is only 4 yrs old in which they have had to learn speech, toilet training, dressing, and a zillion other things. They are spreading their wings and learning about their world. Experience is the teacher. If that mother had put her arms around her daughter, cried and told her daughter how very frightened she was to have lost her and how happy she was that her little girl was alright, her mother's fear of losing her would have registered just as strongly as the hate and abuse shown to her by the one person that was supposed to protect and love her.
Bonnie
email: prettylady1@look.ca
Sunday, October 06, 2002 at 03:58:44 (EDT)
well, i live in South BEnd and was very surpsised to see something like this happen in my own home town...I personally feel that she needs to go through tons of therapy and heavy med's to even begin the possiblity to see her daughter again . She woudl need to seriously have to show some serious improvement in someway before she could see her again . WOman who act like this have serious problems, mentally and biblically . a woman or man woudl never act this way if they had GOd in ther lives. as any christian would vow for that . Everytimt i here about it, it makes my skin crawl I have a daughter that is alomost 10 months and if anyone ever hurt her in any way i woudl kill them with my own hands . so to see someone act like this makes me wonder why???? something had to go wrong up there in their head . sad to say that someone woudl ever be like this but, that is are world ..... maybe this will make a change though in society . Maybe??
christina
Saturday, October 05, 2002 at 23:30:19 (EDT)
I was shocked to see the small child being beaten that way. I know it happens frequently in our society, but to have it on tape is something else. This mother does not deserve to see or be around her daughter. SHe needs counseling to help her deal with her anger issues and then maybe she can see her daughter again. I am all for her serving time in jail and the longer the better. Children are given to parents to love and nuture not treat like puncing bags. As a social worker I would not let her be alone with the child nor have the child in her custody until she could prove that she had dealt with her anger issues. This is uncalled for and a outrage. This mother does not deserve the right to see or raise her own child. If this is what the public has seen her do to her daughter, then how does she treat her when no one is watching her? She deserves to have the book thrown at her.
Faith
email: rhett78@hotmail.com
Saturday, October 05, 2002 at 22:07:16 (EDT)
when i saw the footage of that young lady beating her child i started to cry. i am a victim of child abuse. i think that her child should be taken from her and given to an alternate guardian in the family. then the mother should have to complete counseling, parenting courses, anger management classes, and victim awareness courses. she must not know the consequences of her actions. the cycle will continue for the next generation and the next, if there isn't any intervention.
i am also not opposed to her doing jail time. what if she had gone up to someone else's child and started beating them. why is it that just because it is her child she has a right to inflict such a horrible "punishment".
Chaundra
email: chaundrala333@yahoo.com
Saturday, October 05, 2002 at 14:40:15 (EDT)
I think that woman sould be put behind bars for awhile and get some counsling she really needs help know onw in this world should get away with something like that cause it well just happen again and again but the next time it well be alot worse and it well be our faults for not doing anything to help that distrubed so called mother!!!!!!
Jaymie Lynn
email: jaymie_maydanyk@hotmail.com
Saturday, October 05, 2002 at 13:01:18 (EDT)
I feel very strongly about the Toogood woman, yes we couldn't see everything that went on in the Suv but she clearly didn't want anyone to see or she wouldn't have looked all around before she starts in BEATING HER 4 YEAR OLD I am raising a 4 year old and clearly tell you there are times when I have to put myself in time out before discipling her, if you are that mad you need to step back calm down then handle the problem. Ths swat outside the car was all that child mostly needed, so she didn't stay with her mother in the store and kept asking for a toy it is the parent's responsiblilty to make sure their children stay with them in public places as it is too easy for them to wonder off unsupervised. Every child has at one time or the other whined repeated for a toy that is just being a kid I am sure that I did as a child not to say that my parents gave in and bought me one BUT THEY CERTAINLY DIDN'T BEAT ME AND PULL MY HAIR FOR DOING SO!!!!! As for the mother who is a social worker you clearly sound like you come from Jackson Co. MO where they let the Bass children' mother beat, starve and finally scald one of her twins to death. That made the news big time and they even cahrged her boyfriend as well because he did nothing to stop her. The school had called social services several times in that case and the mother just changed schools while the DFS set on their hands and kept saying mom was just going thru tough times at the moment. I am myself wouldn't have the 4 year old that I am raising except for hiring a lawyer and fighting DFS to get my grandbaby taken out of the other grandmother's care. For the record she weighted 7.5lbs at 8 months when we finally got her. She would have starved to death in another few weeks and yes she was in the system and that social worker just felt she was small for her age, grandmother was selling wick formula that she got for free to buy drugs. Everyone in the USA should stanf up for the children cause social services won't although that is supposed to be their job to look out for the children. The is a clear difference between dicplining your children in publuc and beating and NO I DO NOT THINK THAT EVERY TIME SOME ONE SEES A CHILD GETTING A SWAT ON THE BEHIIND THEY SHOULD CALL AURTHORITIES, BUT IF YOU SEE SEE CLEAR ABUSE AS WAS THE CASE IN TOOGOOD THANK GOD SOMEONE DID BEFORE THAT CHILD BECAME ANOTHER CHILD THAT SOMEONE HAD TO BURY CAUSE THE MOTHER WENT ONE STEP TOO FAR THIS TIME!!!!!! The only way the father was able to keep hie sns was not to live with the mother so that should tell the world it is a problem with the mother and not the father or as old as those boys were after questioning them they would have been removed from both parents. Of course this is just my opinion and as an American I have a right to.
mary bailey
email: grammyb@hotmail.com
Saturday, October 05, 2002 at 12:09:17 (EDT)
I feel very strongly about the Toogood woman, yes we couldn't see everything that went on in the Suv but she clearly didn't want anyon e to see or ahe wouldn't have looked all around before she starts in BEATING HER 4 YEAR OLD I am raising a 4 year old and clearly tell you there are times when I have to put myself in time out before discipling her, if you are that mad you need to step back calm down then handle the problem. Ths swat outside the car was all that child mostly needed, so she didn't stay with her mother in the store and kept asking for a toy it is the parent's responsiblilty to make sure their children stay with them in public places as it is too easy for them to wonder off unsupervised. Every child has at one time or the other whined repeated for a toy that is just being a kid I am sure that I did as a child not to say that my parents gave in and bought me one BUT THEY CERTAINLY DIDN'T BEAT ME AND PULL MY HAIR FOR DOING SO!!!!! As for the mother who is a social worker you clearly sound like you come from Jackson Co. MO where they let the Bass children' mother beat, starve and finally scald one of her twins to death. That made the news big time and they even cahrged her boyfriend as well because he did nothing to stop her. The school had called social services several times in that case and the mother just changed schools while the DFS set on their hands and kept saying mom was just going thru tough times at the moment. I am myself wouldn't have the 4 year old that I am raising except for hiring a lawyer and fighting DFS to get my grandbaby taken out of the other grandmother's care. For the record she weighted 7.5lbs at 8 months when we finally got her. She would have starved to death in another few weeks and yes she was in the system and that social worker just felt she was small for her age, grandmother was selling wick formula that she got for free to buy drugs. Everyone in the USA should stanf up for the children cause social services won't although that is supposed to be their job to look out for the children. The is a clear difference between dicplining your children in publuc and beating and NO I DO NOT THINK THAT EVERY TIME SOME ONE SEES A CHILD GETTING A SWAT ON THE BEHIIND THEY SHOULD CALL AURTHORITIES, BUT IF YOU SEE SEE CLEAR ABUSE AS WAS THE CASE IN TOOGOOD THANK GOD SOMEONE DID BEFORE THAT CHILD BECAME ANOTHER CHILD THAT SOMEONE HAD TO BURY CAUSE THE MOTHER WENT ONE STEP TOO FAR THIS TIME!!!!!! The only way the father was able to keep hie sns was not to live with the mother so that should tell the world it is a problem with the mother and not the father or as old as those boys were after questioning them they would have been removed from both parents. Of course this is just my opinion and as an American I have a right to.
mary bailey
email: grammyb@hotmail.com
Saturday, October 05, 2002 at 12:08:29 (EDT)
I feel very strongly about the Toogood woman, yes we couldn't see everything that went on in the Suv but she clearly didn't want anyon e to see or ahe wouldn't have looked all around before she startes in BEATING HER 4 YEAR OLD
mary bailey
email: grammyb@hotmail.com
Saturday, October 05, 2002 at 11:47:15 (EDT)
I feel that the "mother" should be punished as a child abuser. I can not believe that people are making excuses for her behavior!! I was so disgusted and sick after watching her actions towards her daughter! As a mother myself, who had a very hard time getting pregnant, I think that people who treat their children that way should not have the privilage of being a parent. Parenting is a gift which should not be taken lightly.... there definately is a difference between spanking to correct misbehavior and punching, slapping and shaking a child in the manner that she displayed. If she is able to do that type of abuse in a public place, it is frightening to think what happens at home behind closed doors.
LMW
email: swalsh@wi.rr.com
Saturday, October 05, 2002 at 10:55:28 (EDT)
I am appauled to read so many people writing that the situation wasn't as bad as it looked and that what she did is comparable to a spanking. The situation was exactly how it looked....she beat up her child! I do not condemn spanking but what this woman did was a form of child abuse, not just a form of physical discipline. Whatever punishment she gets I can only hope there is anger management classes involved.
Emily
email: scottandemily@hotmail.com
Saturday, October 05, 2002 at 09:52:11 (EDT)
I feel that the media has made more of this event than may be warranted. The bible says, spare the rod spoil the child. The bible also says that if a parent loves her children she will correct them. I am not saying that a child should be spanked for everything. What I am saying is that in certain situations, spanking is appropriate. I was not there. I did not see what preceeded the spanking. I cannot judge this mother based on a few minuets of video and label her as a child abuser. Most small children would have forgotten what that spanking was about if the mother had waited until she was home to dicipline her daughter. My mother would have spanked me in the store; she whould not have waited until she took me out to the car or cared what others thought about it. Those people who say, don't spank have helped make parenting the paradox that is today and have helped create a generation of disobedient, insolent and disrespectful youth. You are dammed if you do, your children are dammed if your don't.
KW
Karen Williams
email: kariwimms@hotmail.com
Saturday, October 05, 2002 at 08:18:15 (EDT)
I feel that the media has made more of this event than may be warranted. The bible says, spare the rod spoil the child. The bible also says that if a parent loves her children she will correct them. I am not saying that a child should be spanked for everything. What I am saying is that in certain situations, spanking is appropriate. I was not there. I did not see what preceeded the spanking. I cannot judge this mother based on a few minuets of video and label her as a child abuser. Most small children would have forgotten what that spanking was about if the mother had waited until she was home to dicipline her daughter. My mother would have spanked me in the store; she whould not have waited until she took me out to the car or cared what others thought about it. Those people who say, don't spank have helped make parenting the paradox that is today and have helped create a generation of disobedient, insolent and disrespectful youth. You are dammed if you do, your children are dammed if your don't.
KW
Karen Williams
email: kariwimms@hotmail.com
Saturday, October 05, 2002 at 08:16:50 (EDT)
i agree with the woman who say that shit happens, i dont think that it was as bad as they made it. i have four girls and yes they can get on my nerves. i have gotton just as mad as this woman and had to walk away. maybe a l;ittle parenting classes could help all of us. heres to the people who think there parenting skills are to perfection your the ones that need the help:
karen
email: kjs3kde@cs.com
Saturday, October 05, 2002 at 07:43:51 (EDT)
I THINK THE GIRL SHOULD SPEND TIME IN PRISION JAIL OR WHAT EVER THE JUDGIST SAYS.YES SHE KNEW WHAT SHE DONE WAS WRONG WHY I SAY THIS IS SHE LOOKED ALL AROUND TO SEE IF ANYONE WAS THERE NOW THAT IS GUILTY.GOD GAVE CORPAL PUNISHMENT IT IS TIME THE JUDGES START TO USE IT.I HAVE 5 YEAR OLD AND YES THE SHOW THERE SELF BUT I WOULD NEVER GET MAD ENOUGH TO BEAT HIM LIKE THIS.I DO SPANK BUT NO NOT LIKE THAT.
RRC
Saturday, October 05, 2002 at 03:55:29 (EDT)
As a former foster parent and a parent of 3 children of my own. I can say with ful confidence that if this woman were not a "traveler" ther would be no compelling reason to remove the child from the home. What she did was wrong and inexcusable, but it wasn't nearly as bad (damage-wise as the media made it out to be. Under ordinary circumstances I would say that the situation should be closely monitored and the mother should definitely get anger management counseling as well as the whole family needing therapy. However, due to the nature of her lifestyle she is a HUGE flight risk. As soon as she sees a way out she will be gone. She needs to finish her "case plan" before she even gets unsupervised visits. Maybe losing a child for a year or two will be the incentive she needs to change her life. it didn't work for my daughter's birth mother, but after two and a half years of the system trying to help her get her life on track I have her baby. She is my daughter. So you see, the birth family must be given the opportunity to decide their priorities. If they choose wrong, they lose.
Gina Schreivogel
email: momocari@earthlink.net
Saturday, October 05, 2002 at 01:27:56 (EDT)
I dont believe that she deserves her child after beating her. She may say that this was the only time she ever did it but you dont just hit a child once and that is it. I believe that this was the only time she got caught. All her tears and boo hooing doesnt help the fact that she beat her daughter. What makes us think she wouldnt do it again but in her home??? A child doesnt belong in an environment like that.
Kelly
email: swtdarlin1831@aol.com
Saturday, October 05, 2002 at 00:36:28 (EDT)
For the first 5 weeks of the new school year, my son's school, I.S.90, in Manhattan, has not sent home a single textbook, workbook, or any kind of book for extended study and review. Today they finally sent home ONE textbook, and one short story book. BOTH BOOKS ARE IN SPANISH FROM COVER TO COVER. This particular school's online report card can be found at http://www.nycenet.edu/daa/01asr/106090.pdf? It reveals that their NY standards test scores in reading = 18% passed (level 3/4) and 33% FAILED (level1). Thee test scores in mathematics = 11% passed and 54% FAILED. If there is a shortage of textbooks, the FIRST SCHOOL TO GET TEXTBOOKS TO THE STUDENTS' HOME SHOULD BE I.S.90's Mirabal Sisters Intermediate School. WHAT COUNTRY ARE THE SCHOOLS IN UPPER MANHATTAN IN?
LaVerne Pegram
email: accounting4you@nyc.rr.com
NY USASaturday, October 05, 2002 at 00:08:37 (EDT)
im a soon to be mommy and i think that what this woman did was sickening and saddening personally i think she should not be aloud to even be around childen. im sorry but im not going to take thins lightly and im not going to take this impersonally, this was a little girl she may have done wrong but thats not the way to teach your child a lesson. just the thought of spanking my own child makes me sick but beating your child. she needs some help and she doesnt deserve to have a child. children arnt toys they are human beings just as we are and what does that say about ourbringing up and our parents if we beat our children? what does that say about our society?
Mommy to be
email: luvd_by_size@bolt.com
Friday, October 04, 2002 at 22:38:14 (EDT)
I believe the girl, Toogood wa swrong for hitting her child over and over. I am a mother of a 2 year old and a two month old sure I get aggrivated but I have learned how to not react in a violent way. Sure my 2 year old needs spankings, but there are people out there who were hit and beaten on who break what some poeple call "THE FAMILY TRADITION" So not everyone who was raised in a family that belives it is o.k. to discipline your children no matter what. So beating your children because your were by you mother, father, or husband, and being frustrated does not excuse the behavior.
A mother is suppose to be the one person a child should trust and turn to, but a child will not turn to someone who will hit them in a violent manner. Leaving a child to turn to other places in the world.
lala
LALA
email: LALATROLLI@YHOO.COM
Friday, October 04, 2002 at 22:18:40 (EDT)
I come from a home of may foster children granted that i am not a foster child. I have seen six month old babies arms broken and legs broke all because a parent clams to be frustraited. i have also seen teenagers badly beaten for the same reason. I am sorry but Mrs. Toogood does not deserve her child if she cannot handle the pressure now what is she going to do next time? How far does it have to go before someone steps in? I know it is hard raising children I have two of my own twins infact but you have to use self controll. I am not saying a child should go unpunished but does the child need to be slapped or punched in the face? NO No!!! There are ways of correcting a child with out scaring them for life. As I mentioned before the six month old my parents raised is seven and thinks hurting someone is how you get them to do what you want. Sadly that began at six months. He has a problem just like Mrs. Toogood's daughter will.
jamie beane
email: beane@rtmc.net
Friday, October 04, 2002 at 21:34:31 (EDT)
I agree---the woman turned herself in because she was caught in the act.
Houston mom??? Are ya a little late picking up the Zoloft this month? Chill big fella.
wingnut
Friday, October 04, 2002 at 21:23:16 (EDT)
MANY MAY NOT AGREE WITH WHAT I AM ABOUT TO SAY BUT THIS IS AN OPINION OF ONE WHO WORKS WITH CHILDREN'S SERVICES. FIRST,I AM A PARENT OF 2 AND KNOW THAT I HAVE MADE MANY MISTAKES LIKE ALL PARENTS HAVE. I HAVE "POPPED" MY KIDS FOR ACTING UP IN A STORE -NOT TO WHAT SHE MAY HAVE DONE BUT WE ALL HAVE DONE IT. STOP! STOP ! STOP! WITH TAKE THE KIDS OUT THE HOUSE- THEN EACH AND EVERYONE OF US NEED OUR KIDS IN FOSTER CARE BECASE OF OUR OWN MISTAKES. LET'S TAKE THE KIDS OUT IF THEY GET BEAT NOT POPPED REGULARLY, OR NOT BEING FED OR NOT ATTENDING SCHOOL. FUNNY! THESE ARE MANY KIDS SUFFERING IN THOSE SITUATIONS. SO REMEMBER WHEN YOU HAVE TO DISCIPLINE OR YELL AND TO A STRANGER IT COULD LOOK BAD OR SHOULD THEY MIND THEIR BUSINESS. LET'S GET MAD ABOUT THE CHILDREN WE SEE WHO ARE NOT APPROPRIATLY DRESSED IN THE WINTER. HOW COME THAT DOESN'T MAKE THE NEWS. THERE ARE 1000 OF KIDS LIVING HARD LIVES EACH DAY AND LET'S HELP THEM. LET'S NOT JUDGE ON A SITUATION THAT YOU SEE FROM A BLURRED VIEW AWAY. THINK BACK ON HOW YOU COULD HAVE HANDLED A SITUATION AND FROM A FAR IT LOOKED ABUSIVE.
TD
email: BLESSEDLADY1@MSN.COM
Friday, October 04, 2002 at 21:09:36 (EDT)
Having grown up near a community of Irish Travelers, I am all to aware of the abusive behavior in the clan. This is something that the children have always been raised with, that the wives have lived through since day one. The husbands control their wives through abuse. The wives control the children the same way.
I believe that the Toogood mother needs counseling and intense parenting education, as well as anger control classes. She also needs monitoring. But I do not believe that being stripped from her mother is the best thing for the child. The mother has already made a brave move by separating from her husband, who, if he follows the pattern of his sub-culture, is abusive.
Heather
email: hkistler1@cox.net
Friday, October 04, 2002 at 20:50:23 (EDT)
EYE ON THE MEDIA
Just Because It’s on Tape, Is It Really News?
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Back to Comedy
Original Recipe Has A Tasteful Hannibal
Is Hit on Daughter Amiss?
By Clay Calvert
Clay Calvert, author of "Voyeur Nation: Media, Privacy, and Peering in Modern Culture," teaches communications and law at Pennsylvania State University.
October 2, 2002
The disturbing story of Madelyne Gorman Toogood is, by now, sadly familiar. She's the young mother caught on camera Sept. 13 outside a department store in Mishawaka, Ind., striking her 4-year-old daughter, Martha.
That's the news story, and it would have been hard to miss it given the massive media coverage heaped on the incident after the tape became public Sept. 20.
In this case, then, a videotape of an otherwise common, although disquieting, event passed as news partly because we, as a society, are conditioned by infotainment programs like "World's Wildest Police Videos" and "Real TV." Such video-clip shows blur the line between news and entertainment, while they suggest that news is simply whatever drama a camera captures.
The ubiquitous deployment of privacy-intrusive video cameras raises questions, as does whether a mother charged with battering her child should have visitation rights and the ability to regain custody. But the Toogood incident also raises a more fundamental issue: Is this incident really news?
If the answer is yes, then we must also ask ourselves at what cost is it news?
There is no question why this video appeared on news programs. It features shocking and sensational tape which, like that of the Los Angeles police officers beating Rodney King, makes for memorable and dramatic viewing. And in both the King and Toogood cases, people who are supposed to do good, police and mothers, were caught doing ill.
Without the security camera videotape of Toogood's abuse of her daughter, the incident never would have become news. Far more savage beatings of children occur on a chillingly regular basis but never make it to the network and cable news channels because there is no unrehearsed video imagery to capture the moment.
But there are other reasons why the incident became news. It appeals to our sense of video justice, a phenomenon fostered by so-called reality shows like "Cops." The Toogood tape did more than just expose wrongdoing. It provided the pivotal evidence upon which the mother was charged with battery. Instant guilt-by-media at its finest.
And videotape, we are led to believe, must be news because it brings us the truth and journalists are in the business of truthtelling.
But a videotape by itself is simply that: a decontextualized collection of continuous images that masquerade as the truth. Videotapes never tell they whole story.
And while journalists now are adding details to the incident - Toogood's lifestyle in the so-called Irish Travelers culture and the allegation that her daughter acted up prior to the beating - it is the videotape that will be remembered.
In the process of unofficially declaring this video to be news by broadcasting it almost non-stop and thereby piling on to the protagonists the public's voyeuristic gaze, did the media exploit Toogood's troubles and do her irreparable damage? By transforming the ironically named 25-year-old woman into the national poster mother for poor parenting, did the news media irrevocably damage her reputation and, in the process, any chance of her ever restoring the bond with her child? And what certainly is a more unsettling question, was her daughter's life forever ruined when the media chose to reveal her name?
It is doubtful the public will ever know the answers to these questions. Why? Because the story will soon fade from the media's radar screen and the odds of a story on the lives of mother and daughter years down the road are slim to none.
Some staggering loss-of-life events like the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on New York City and the Pentagon make for natural follow-up stories years later. But such anniversary-driven journalism is not likely here. Don't expect to see stories about Toogood on Sept. 13, 2003.
None of this excuses the conduct of Madelyne Toogood or denies the importance of the questions about corporal punishment and surveillance raised by the videotape. But it is a call for caution - caution on the part of journalists when they sacrifice the lives of a troubled mother and her child for, when viewed cynically, ratings, or, when seen more charitably, the public's right to know.
The final question is: Do the general benefits of this story to the media and the public outweigh the specific harm to Madelyne and Martha Toogood? The answer will be found only in long-term outcomes and consequences of the coverage.
Copyright © 2002, Newsday, Inc.
Eye on America
Friday, October 04, 2002 at 15:47:18 (EDT)
The mother that was caught on tape hitting her daughter should have her children taken out of her home and placed with a foster family that is loving. Obviously she lives a very transit lifestyle from news reports. That is not an enviornment any child should grow up in.
Heather
Friday, October 04, 2002 at 13:48:56 (EDT)
I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A CORRECTION TO A STATEMENT MADE BY HOUSTON MOM. I'M NOT SURE SHE HAS STUDIED, READ OR EVEN KNOWS THE BIBLE, BUT SINCE SHE DID MAKE THE COMMENT AND I QUOTE "NO WHERE, ABSOLUTELY NO WHERE DOES IT(BIBLE) SAY, "SPARE THE ROD, SPOIL THE CHILD." SWEETY IT IS IN THE BIBLE. THIS WAS NOT A CLICHE BY BENJAMIN FRANKLIN. PROVERBS 13:24 SAYS "HE WHO SPARES THE ROD HATES HIS SON, BUT HE WHO LOVES HIM IS CAREFUL TO DISCIPLINE HIM." THIS IS FROM THE NIV BIBLE. IN OTHER WORDS IT MEANS "SPARE THE ROD, SPOIL THE CHILD. YOU SHOULD REALLY KNOW WHAT IS IN THE BIBLE BEFORE YOU TRY TO SAY WHAT IS NOT. AS FOR MS. TOOGOOD, SHE MAY HAVE HAD GOOD INTENTIONS IN THE BEGINNING WHEN SHE WAS SPANKING HER CHILD, BUT THE FACT IS SHE DID TAKE IT TOO FAR. YOU DO NOT PUNCH NOR PULL A CHILDS HAIR UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. SHE SHOULD BE PUNISHED FOR THAT. MAYBE NOT JAIL-TIME, BUT DEFINITELY ANGER MANAGEMENT AND COUNSELING. THAT'S JUST MY OPINION
ATLANTA MOM
REGINA
email: WTHOMAS@DCH.STATE.GA.US
Friday, October 04, 2002 at 11:59:23 (EDT)
These children should be taken from their mother. I also believe we need harsher punishments for this type of behavior. I was sick to my stomach just hearing the story. Imagine yourself as that little girl, someone you love has trapped you and is punching the lights out of you. Imagine what it would feel like to be trapped by a person much larger than you, so you can't move - I would be scared to death. Then the hurt the little girl would have because this was her mother-someone that should be protecting her from things like this. If we would allow these children to be left with their mother, they would grow up to do the same to their children, because they would have learned no differently - what true love really is.
I right now am taking care of my neice and nephew because my sister neglects them. She has not abused them, or I would have called authorities immediately. Thank God our priest has intervened and got my sister some help.
Our world is becoming very sick, and it will not get any better unless others intervene when things are not going right. I also work at a middle school. Everyday I talk to kids that are neglected and/or abused. They have never had anyone tell them their hair looks nice, or they have a nice smile. I believe each time I talk to one of these children, I am giving them a little hope for their future, that they will see that there is a choice to be nice and caring or you can be mean, or just ignore that someone is there.
Show your children patience and love. Just sitting and goofing around with them will make a difference.
Mother of Two, Guardian of Two Others
email: dena.sandidge@k12.sd.us
Friday, October 04, 2002 at 10:11:47 (EDT)
I was horrified when I saw that mom beating her child. I feel the child needs to be removed from the home and placed with loving people. The mom needs anger managment classes and counseling. If she does that and proves she cares about this child, the child should be returned to her -- but with monitoring. There's an issue we've forgotten about here: It's alledged she's a scam artist. If this is true, she doesn't need to be around the child at all for a very long time.
Growing up is hard enough without a mom who's into illegal activity and beats you senseless whenever she sees fit.
Carol
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 18:03:55 (EDT)
I usually use this board as a way to view how other moms view issues. I am sad to say that some of the postings on this board makes me wonder if we not practicing what we preach (anger and abuse). If we can get this angry with someone we have never met, imagine how we can get with people we love and know. Listen to yourselves. You'll probably never in life cross each others paths. I agree with one of the moms who used the term drama. I'll say drama with a capital "D".
We are Americans! What happened to the compassion that we had for one another just last month (Sept. 11th)?
I'm really enjoying some of the post. Houston mom, please stop! You are fueling this. I don't how you got that the other mom was threatning you. Maybe, it's because you were in the military. NO ONE said that we are not grateful for the Armed Forces.
(Houston Mom)I think that you should post when you are not sooo emotional.
Florida Mom
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 17:36:47 (EDT)
Houston, you have a problem.
Are you even reading the same posts as the rest of us? I appreciate all armed forces, but I am sure they are not proud to have you backing them. You don't even understand what you are reading. Step back lady, and get a clue.
Melissa
email: zvmhsmom@hotmail.com
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 17:26:18 (EDT)
I think that kids can be stressful ... believe me ... I have a 2 1/2 yr old who is starting to think that she rules the world. I do find it hard to contain my frustration and have had to take some very long very deep breaths to relax ... but I would NEVER repeatedly beat on or around my child! I think that you can relax yourself and step away from the situation, without bringing harm, or even appearing to bring harm to your child.
And about the mom in line ... if you dont handle things in your home and you allow your child to run rampant, of course you will not be able to control them in a check out line. Saying please to my daughter, works, and works well! Without spanking, etc ... !
And, my goodness, ladies! Look at yourselves ... a bunch of dramatic, name calling, button-pushing children!!!
Heather
email: heather@thesub.net
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 16:31:28 (EDT)
Good point CBS. But, I don't think that we misinterpreted what this woman was doing. She was clearly punching this child.
I'm sure that I do alot of things that woudn't seem "correct". I use alot of foul language. Not proud of it, but I find myself doing it very often. Especially when I am ticked off about something (one things that my platoon would always tell me). I've been known to curse my soldiers out for doing what I think that they should known not to do. I think the news Khou Tv channel 11 (cbs) in Houston said that this child was about 4 years old. Does she truly understand that she's doing something wrong? No!
She's a child. Our job as adults is to teach her not beat her!
Just my opinion...
Houston Mom
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 15:34:58 (EDT)
Melissa,
Ex-Army (MP -military police). And believe me when I tell you ALL military personnel DO NOT have class. Just ask the families of the women who were murdered in Ft. Bragg, N.C.
Yes, I might me a get little angry when someone says that I need a swat (read the posting from Missy to me).
Well, enough of this! So far, the only people who have said something halfway decent is The lady from Florida and the woman who says that she works for CBS news.
Houston Mom
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 15:23:35 (EDT)
You should care that I was in the military. I and many who fight in the Armed Forces give you the opportunity to give your opinion on this board. You sound so ungrateful! I wonder the men and women who are serving now would feel about you saying that you don't care about the Armed Forces.
Houston Mom
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 15:11:50 (EDT)
I can not believe that a grown woman was not able to control herself. I am a mother of a 2 and a half year old. I can not think of punching him or pulling his hair. I do however believe that certain times do call for a swat on the butt. I am pretty sure that most people our ages were swatted when we were younger and we are not serial killers or child abusers. I do think that you do have to step away from the situation if you are to the point of causing great harm to your child. I don't just mean physical harm, I mean mental harm too. I agree with Missy that she obviously was not in control of her daughter in the store or out. Shopping is not fun for kids they would rather be at home playing.
As for Houston mom, you sound like you have anger problems towards other mother. I can not believe a grown woman would act the way you do. My family is made up of ex-Marines and ex-Air Force, and they are all known to have self control and class, what special force are you from again? How mature is it to talk the way you do to another adult. This is for adults in here, GROW UP!
Melissa
email: zvmhsmom@hotmail.com
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 14:06:18 (EDT)
Houston Mom what exactly was offensive in my post? If you read it, it basically said that she was clearly abusing her child. Im all for desciplining children, and I have called CPS myself on people, but she was clearly overstepping her boundaries RE: hitting the child like that. My child has gotton a swat on the leg for running out in the street..and she hasnt done it again. That is NOT abuse, and this is my opinion, like it or not. Who cares if you were in the Armed Forces. The topic is about Toogood, and thats what I posted about. Im sure alot of other people out there think that she needs counseling, and some jail time for what she did. If thats not your opinion, so be it. There was nothing threatening in my post at all, you obviously took it out of text.
Missy
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 13:24:37 (EDT)
I have an idea...all of you who have thoughts on this issue should do a simple exercise. I will do it with you.
Tomorrow (or any day...pick a day) every time you do something, go somewhere, say something to yourself, your child (ren), spouse or react to a situation stop and think about how it would look on camera aired before the world. Especially in those moments when you know (or think you know) no one is watching.
Then come back here and tell of your experience. Think about how others would perceive your actions (your true actions and words)...look at them as if they belong to someone else and you are judging their behaviors.
I would bet that anyone willing to do this would find several moments in his/her day when they are not on their best behavior and would see how easily those moments could be misconstrued or mis- interpreted by other eyes.
I challenge all of you, each of you and myself to participate in this experience.
CBS
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 12:39:14 (EDT)
Excellent Posting CBS news. I really respect everything that you've said. Your posting really helps me to look at the entire situation in a different light.
We should really get the "facts" straight (Missy).
Ahhh...Finally an intelligent, unemotional opinion.
Thanks
Florida Mom
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 11:36:43 (EDT)
Let me clarify that I am talking about the "continued hittin" once the child is in the SUV...we can all clearly see the sats to the backside outside the vehical.
CBS
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 11:34:33 (EDT)
You should all realize that what you see on tv is not always what it appears to be. As someone who works in the news business, it can be difficult to be fair (especially when emotions come into play) but you all need to look at that video exactly as it is. What do you see and what do you think you see? What you actually see is that mother put her child in the rear of and SUV and then she blocks the child with her body. You see her hand smacking...smacking what? the child's leg, head. bottom of perhaps the seat of the car? No one can tell exactly just by looking at that video. And then she puts the child in a car seat. Everyone has jumped the gun where this video is concerned (remember emotions aside). I see posts on here saying look at the "FACTS"...exactly look at the facts.
Almost everyone who has seen this video "assumes" she beat that child senseless but no one can say they have actually seem her hand make contact with that child's body. It is impossible because her body blocks the viewfrom the camera of the child's body once inside the SUV.
There are several issues here. That tape does not tell the whole story as we do not know what transpired in the store. Also what about big brother watching? Do you think this is appropriate?
I have stood in line behind a mother who has pleaded nicely with her 3 year old to please behave and stop screaming. To no avail. Had this woman turned her child over and spanked him I certainly would not have called the police. As a mother, I would have ended it after the second please.
I am not saying that by any means what this mother did is right. I do think the child protective services should investigate to make certain this child is not being harmed on a continual and abusive basis. But we saw one instance in a person's life and suddenly we know everything? Get real people.
I am certain we ALL have instances that if caught on camera would portray us in the worst possible manner but does that make me, or you abusive, horrible parents? No, not in my case anyway.
As a parent my first thought was total outrage but as a news person, I had to put that aside and ask my self "what am I really looking at and what am I really seeing?" I think people would be more fair all around it we took the time to ask ourselves these questions before we condemn.
Mind you I am only using this example but for a larger purpose.
I hope those of you who have the intelligence to be fair can and will use it in all aspects of life. While there are times when our emotions get caught up first, we have to be bigger people and look beyond it. Remember that when you demand that others "look at the facts", that you tourself are doing the same in all fairness.
CBS News
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 11:25:30 (EDT)
It seems that the both you need help!
However, I do agree that this women needs some type counseling. Should she serve jail time? I don't know! Children in foster care are not better off. Believe me, I am a foster mother. Children are very forgiving and love their mothers regardless of the circumstances. I think that she was angry and acting out her anger. Was she right of course not! Should her kids be taken from her? No, Not at all!
Counseling takes everyone being involved including the children.
I remember when there was a time that everyone in my community got beatings (not whippings are swats) but beatings. It seems like something generational. If you were abused you tend to abuse. To stop the cycle the entire family needs to seek sometype of counseling.
Houston Mom, I am going to look at the bible and see if "spare the rod spoil the child" is their. I'm sure I've read it in Proverbs.
Lastly, we don't need to get angry because someome post something that is not of the same opinion that we hold. We are adults here and threats and foul language in no way be tolerated!
Florida Mom
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 11:24:32 (EDT)
Missy,
You don't want any of this! (translation: you can't handle me) So, don't threaten me! Stick to the subject at hand. I read alot of your postings from the last board. You are a very sick individual who is so arrogant to believe that I care or any of the other moms that you've responded to their postings REALLY CARE about your opinion! I am not the topic here. Neither are my postings.
Just make sure that you don't come to Texas and beat your child, because I have been known to call CPS (child protective services) on parents. One of the children that I've seen abused (severly abused). I've adopted. (verifiable information)
This was clearly a case of an over grown person, using their strength and size to control (or trying to) control her daughter.
Spankings should be banded! In your bible, no where absolutely NO WHERE does it (bible) say, "spare the road spoil the child". This was a cliche of Benjamin Franklin. Since people refused to "study to show thyself approved", they assumed that this famous cliche was biblical.
Leave me alone and post your opinion.
Again, my posting is not the subject here. So don't threaten me! I take threats very seriously since I am an ex-military mom, (SFC-Sgt. First Class) Threats are always reciprocated!
Houston Mom
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 11:14:53 (EDT)
This woman, as I use that term lightly, ONLY turned herself in because she was caught on tape. Im sure this was NOT the first time she has abused that little girl. Even if she misbehaved in the store, it does NOT give her the right to punch her and pull her hair, that is CLEARLY abuse! Im sure her sibblings have been punched also. And if the store had to page her several times to come and get her daughter, its quite obvious that SHE was not doing her job very well... she was NOT keeping an eye on her at all! I think that she should do some jail time, take anger management courses, and parenting classes as well. If she passes all of them, then maybe, if supervised get her kids back. I would not let her have them back without those things considered. What a witch! I would like to pull her hair, punch her, and beat on her for a little while!
Missy
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 08:44:02 (EDT)
Houston Mom There is a HUGE difference between giving a much needed swat when needed, and abuse! Get the facts straight! That was clearly abuse, but a good swat every once in a while, is warrented and needed, is that abuse? I DONT think so! Sounds like you need one!
Missy
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 08:39:32 (EDT)
What an oxy-moron! I was told that a good name is more than a million dollars.
I think that they should put her "toogood" ass in jail! Let one of those jail dikes whip up on her "toogood" ass for a couple of years!
This should teach parents a lesson who chooses to spank their children. Big brother is watching. Are you doing the right thing?
Houston Mom
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 07:56:30 (EDT)
Sending your child to preschool should not be mandatory; however, parents need to understand that teachers of Kindergarten students and above are being graded on how much their students learn and retain. Parents need to play a very active role in educating their children in the basics (nursery rhymes, abc's, colors, manners) before Kindergarten. If this is not being done in the home, for whatever reason, then preschool is a must to learn these skills and others. Why not give your child every advantage that's available to them?
Nancy
email: jones1@mcleodusa.net
Thursday, October 03, 2002 at 00:00:42 (EDT)
I think kids today should go to preschool. If they don't they will not be ready for kindergarten which is more like first grade.
Marilyn
Wednesday, October 02, 2002 at 23:55:16 (EDT)
I feel they need to have time to just be kids they are in school for a long time in there lives. They will learn in time.Each child grows an learns differently.An if the education world would adjust to this an realize kids are kids an they learn no matter when or if they go to school. I think we need to stop worring if are kid is going to be the smartes one on the block an start teaching them at home that there loved no matter how smart they may or may not be!
Roxanne
email: rmbrooks@cox.net
Wednesday, October 02, 2002 at 23:48:13 (EDT)
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