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Welcome to the Sound Off Discussion Board, where parents from all walks of life and all parts of the world come together in one place to share their opinions and thoughts about the question of the week. Please remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion and the freedom to express it. Obscene posts are unwelcome and shall be removed from the board. Please keep in mind that this is a public board. Never post personal information that you would be uncomfortable sharing with others. Comments about this board should be sent to iParenting's Webmaster. Thank you for contributing! If you have a suggestion for the question of the week, send it to feedback@iparenting.com.

Some teachers feel the “real world” is missing from school textbooks. For example, cleaning up bad language in literary classics, and how they are written not to offend anyone. Some teachers are choosing not to use them at all in class. What do you think?

For archived topics, click here.

I wonder how many of the parents that are in a wad over "foul language" in literary classics let their kids park themselves in front of MTV all afternoon.

PJB
Wednesday, October 29, 2003 at 11:53:49 (EST)
LG - I agree - it has been 11 years since I was in HS myself, but I cannot remember any thing foul in any of the books I read in high school lit classes.
I read Catcher in the Rye by choice, not as a school project, and I also read the Cider House Rules on my own, and I'll tell you that it contains more bad language and controversial subject matter than any books I was assigned to read in HS. I thin kthe school boards are picking the wrong battles. As I said earlier, why don't they concentrate on the quality and age-appropriateness of their text books first?

margarita
Wednesday, October 29, 2003 at 01:03:50 (EST)
Your welcome Phil!

JMO!! Hiya!! It was good to see your post since I've been too lazy to email lately! I will soon, though! TC!!! :-)
LH
Wednesday, October 29, 2003 at 00:02:15 (EST)
LH and j-mo--thanks for the compliments.
Seems like there are lots and lots of good points being made by almost everyone on this topic. Good job everybody!
Philbert (think I'll drop the Flange)
Tuesday, October 28, 2003 at 23:15:27 (EST)
I remember reading "Catcher In The Rye" and reading swear words. At first we all thought "oh my gosh, did it ACTUALLY say that word"?? After realizing it was a swear word and reading it again a couple other times, we just laughed to ourselves and kept on reading. The words that are written are nothing new to the average teenager. If anything, it makes them more eager to finish the book to see what else is written in this "classic". And for reading that and "The Great Gatsby", I am only a more well rounded individual.
I agree with the post saying the school board has no right in choosing to ban certain books from high schools. The real world is getting scarier and scarier as each generation is born. Why shield them and then not know how to handle themselves when they are on their own???
We need to encourage our children to become the leaders for tomorrow. Knowledge equals Power!
Kerri
Tuesday, October 28, 2003 at 15:21:04 (EST)
well said phil!!

i, too, think it would be a crime to omit or change the literary classics. i mean, come on, so there is a little bad word here and there. is that really such a big deal?? personally i think there are far more serious things to worry about than your child learning a naughty word. like someone else said, kids will learn far worse things on the playground and tv and from video games and music. good grief!!!
j-mo
Tuesday, October 28, 2003 at 11:36:34 (EST)
I think books should be left alone. It was only a few years ago that I was in high school and I have been trying for days to recall a book that I read that contained something "bad" and I honestly cannot think of one thing. Nothing can be worse than some of the stuff on TV these days. Also no matter how hard they try someone is ALWAYS going to be offended so why bother. Just leave stuff alone.
LG
Tuesday, October 28, 2003 at 11:05:29 (EST)
My daughter absolutely devoures books...I would consider it a crime to take some of the great (and not so great!) literary works she has read away from her just because "someone" thought they were unfit for a child to read! I say know what your children are being taught in school...if you disagree with a certain topic, then pull your own child out for that day...but don't tell ME what my child can or cannot read! That is MY choice!
LH
Monday, October 27, 2003 at 22:51:19 (EST)
Oh sure, teachers are deciding to not use the textbooks, but do they really have a choice if the liberal public school board has already made the "official" change? The liberals are trying to make our children less educated by "altering" history thus creating a more ignorant nation dependent on the government for aid, direction, and assistance. Hence their agenda...to make the average American citizen dependent on the government for everything. Less government=the REAL America!
For this reason, I will NOT send my children to public school!
OSCAR
Monday, October 27, 2003 at 21:50:51 (EST)
A GOODWIN-You out there girl? How are you doing with the PG? Are you showing yet? I'm doing well. DD is growing like a little weed...a cute one though! We're hoping that we'll be able to TTC soon. Hope you're doing great!
SH
Monday, October 27, 2003 at 15:22:22 (EST)
I've heard a number of times
in the past 25 years "that Paul
Revere's Ride didn't actually happen" now I think that it's time for all books to delete what
is not factual.

All too often the history in
our books are written to make the
kids more interested, and alot
less.

Just the facts mam, just
the facts.






Douglas
email: mrdcdoerner@cs.com
Monday, October 27, 2003 at 00:49:58 (EST)
Right on Phil!!! Power of the PEN! LOL!
LH
Sunday, October 26, 2003 at 22:47:05 (EST)
Quick! Somone call the political correctness police--we are about to witness another act of brutal stupidity!!
OK, while we certainly don't need to perpetuate many of the negative social and cultural stereotypes from recent history in new literary works, to go and change or outright ignore many of the books that have been taught in schools for decades is nothing short of idiocy. Why don't we just burn these books while we're at it.
If they are worried about giving kids bad language habits, I think they can rest easy. Kids will pick up 50 times the bad vocabulary on the playground or watching many TV shows than they will from reading a few classics that have the occasional swear word. And in the end it is up to us as parents to teach our kids which language is acceptable or not.
Like LH said in the first post on here, are they going to start messing with the bible? Heaven forbid my son actually reads Song of songs once he can read. Sure there's no swearing, but that's some pretty hot stuff! Maybe I'll just exercise some common sense instead and try to help him interpret what the real meaning is.
Philbert Flange
Sunday, October 26, 2003 at 19:14:45 (EST)
Textbooks should be factual. Books that were written for historical or entertainment purposes should be left alone. Parents need to be the ones to decide what their children are exposed to not the government. My PTA helps to decide what is appropriate in the classroom for our district. Parents need to be more involved.
Diane
Saturday, October 25, 2003 at 22:22:09 (EDT)
I do not agree with "cleaning up" works that others have already written. The authors wrote what they did for a reason, and who has the right to change that? Over the years, people have chosen what is to be read by children in school, and now that they don't like it, so it's time to "clean it up" and change what was previously written. What does this tell our children? It tells them that original works are worth NOTHING. If someone can go through and change what was written, why shouldn't they do the same when they write their reports and such? Works of literature are wonderful, no matter what genre.

As for what Rhonda said, textbooks are facts, if you have a grammar book, science book, history book...what about literature text books? How are those facts? Literature is either fiction or non-fiction. How can you stick to facts in non-fiction? If you only stick to facts, then children don't learn how to use their imagination, and express themselves.

Cleaning up the textbooks is only hurting the children. The world is a harsh place, and getting moreso every day. I'm not saying put more in the books, but why take out what's already there?


Dara
Saturday, October 25, 2003 at 16:22:34 (EDT)
LH~ hi! How long has the topic been different from the do not call list? I have been looking at the main page and it still says the question is about the do not call list so I have been not coming in.
Uhhhhh I think that textbooks have many more problems than bad language (I don't remember ever reading bad language in my lit classes, we read Dickens and Dickenson and Thoreau and Homer. Oh! We also read the Canterbury Tales and those are a little riske). Textbooks are not always age appropriate and also are only really helpful to one specific learning theory. I think teachers have many reasons to avoid relying on textbooks to teach our kids: our kids need to learn to apply what they are learning, not just recite it and fill in the right blank. Most textbooks don't do that =(. Just m y 2 cents.
Margarita
Friday, October 24, 2003 at 23:24:40 (EDT)
LH~ hi! How long has the topic been different from the do not call list? I have been looking at the main page and it still says the question is about the do not call list so I have been not coming in.
Uhhhhh I think that textbooks have many more problems than bad language (I don't remember ever reading bad language in my lit classes, we read Dickens and Dickenson and Thoreau and Homer. Oh! We also read the Canterbury Tales and those are a little riske). Textbooks are not always age appropriate and also are only really helpful to one specific learning theory. I think teachers have many reasons to avoid relying on textbooks to teach our kids: our kids need to learn to apply what they are learning, not just recite it and fill in the right blank. Most textbooks don't do that =(. Just m y 2 cents.
Margarita
Friday, October 24, 2003 at 23:22:38 (EDT)
I don't think it's so much the bad language that these teachers are concerned about, it's the fact that too much has already been "erased" from our history and literary classics. Yes there was/ is some "bad" language in some of these books, but if we as parents teach our children what is right / wrong, acceptable /not acceptable, then it shouldn't be a problem when they read the words. Hiding or erasing these things from the books only causes ignorance to the problems that they cause.
I have to say that I would agree with them not to use the "cleaned up " books and use the original ones.
Mary
email: sarahbabybear@yahoo.com
Friday, October 24, 2003 at 22:29:47 (EDT)
Why do our children need to read bad words, even in literary classics? They'll have plenty of time later in life to be bombarded with filth.

Textbooks should be about FACTS. Period. And that's the way I remember them. So what's wrong with that? A good teacher could add exercises and other activities to make the facts more exciting.

Rhonda
Rhonda
Friday, October 24, 2003 at 13:16:58 (EDT)
Anything that could possibly be found in textbooks couldn't be any worse than what kids hear out on the playground or on TV or on the internet. Eventually children will be exposed to all sorts of things, so why not do it in an educating way, in a safe classroom environment, where things can be thoroughly explained and discussed? It makes more sense to me than editing.
SH
Friday, October 24, 2003 at 12:12:53 (EDT)
Editing literary works and other forms of media (video, tv, etc..) I think are harmful in the long run to children. As a child we played cowboys and indians, we used play guns, we read about the atrocities that occurred to the Jewish populations etc... If we hide all that information, or prohibit children from learning about what happened in our past, they will grow up very naive and have encounters in real life that they are unable to cope with.
Playing cowboys and indians did not harm me, nor my friends at school, which inclued an American Indian girl. I played with African American Rub a Dub Dolly's. My best friend in 1st grade was an African American boy. I was exposed to differences in cultures, but the facts about the way people live and speak (jive, obscenities, other languages) were never hidden from me. I was always told to speak the way my parents speak. Not that their way was the "right" way, but if I wanted to communicate with my parents I had to speak a certain way.

What happened to the Brer Rabbit Movie? That movie was made based on the time period. Why hide that? Children are not going to learn prejudice/language from a movie, they learn it from their environment. What they are taught at home.

So, in all, re-editing any media does not make sense. Making everything PC is a ludicrous. It will teach nothing regarding the evolution of our society!
Krista
email: krista.griffin@marriott.com
Friday, October 24, 2003 at 11:22:42 (EDT)
I think this is terrible! Next thing...they'll start messing with the words of the bible! Nothing is sacred anymore!
LH
Friday, October 24, 2003 at 07:21:40 (EDT)