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Welcome to the Sound Off Discussion Board, where parents from all walks of life and all parts of the world come together in one place to share their opinions and thoughts about the question of the week. Please remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion and the freedom to express it. Obscene posts are unwelcome and shall be removed from the board. Please keep in mind that this is a public board. Never post personal information that you would be uncomfortable sharing with others. Comments about this board should be sent to iParenting's Webmaster. Thank you for contributing! If you have a suggestion for the question of the week, send it to feedback@iparenting.com.

A high school student in Florida was suspended for wearing a Halloween costume depicting "safe sex." The girl wore a T-shirt with condoms taped to it. Did the school act appropriately?

For archived topics, click here.

KERRI--I'm so glad that anything I said was helpful to you, and anyone else!

I know that The Educated Child is a BIG book, but you can sort of skim the parts that don't apply to you. Regardless, it's a GREAT book, and so informative.

If you can get the other book, Inside American Education, it's well worth the time to read as well.

I hope the best for you!
Vanessa
Wednesday, November 12, 2003 at 21:55:56 (EST)
VANESSA-I just checked out the book "The Educated Child" from the library and will agree that after reading the introduction, it is definitely an eye opener. Thanks again for the suggestion of this book, I will be putting it on my "Christmas List". :)
I am still working on the other book...
kerri
Wednesday, November 12, 2003 at 15:22:12 (EST)
skoodle-bug...LOL, cute!:-)
LH
Wednesday, November 12, 2003 at 14:02:39 (EST)
Hi all! I have not posted in a while, and it took me a while to read through all I missed. Anyway--I really think this "costume" was put together as an attention getter, period. So, congratulations young lady, looks like you are getting all sorts of attention. In the event that this girl WAS trying to make a legitimate societal statement--there are STILL consequences to your actions, no matter how important the message you are trying to get across! In this case, suspension--deal with it. Organizations such as Greenpeace and Peta, to name a couple, have very important messages to convey, but since they use "out there" ways to convey them, there are negative consequences--that's how it goes! I'm not saying this girl's choice of a Halloween costume is in the same league as Greenpeace, but I'm just trying to use an example. I really think it was all about the attention and "shock" value though.
LH and j-mo: Hi ladies!:)
A Goodwin--I'm so happy you are getting over the "ickies!" Would you take a little loving advice from a mother of three though? Don't worry about watching your weight--Now is NOT the time for that. You have plenty of time to lose that baby weight after you give birth to a healthy little skoodle bug. So, go to the gym to stay healthy, but do not take part in any weight loss programs right now. Your OB/GYN will let you know if you are gaining too MUCH weight, but you need to let that little guy/girl grow as much as possible without any dietary intervention right now. End of lecture--hugs & kisses!;)
Take Care all!
angela
Wednesday, November 12, 2003 at 14:00:44 (EST)
A GOODWIN-I'm glad you're gaining, and you seem like you feel better! Thank goodness that morning sickness is gone, right? What are you hoping for LB or LG? Have you thought about names? AF is still here, but hopefully she'll be gone soon. Keep me posted on your u/s too!
SH
Wednesday, November 12, 2003 at 12:43:09 (EST)
Abit more fuel for thought...I have already taken "precautions" to ensure my daughters safety with something I may not agree with or support, but wish to keep her safe nonetheless!!! (nuf said?)

TC!!!!
LH
Wednesday, November 12, 2003 at 12:33:33 (EST)
Goodwin...I understand and appreciate your opinion, but in cases where children are going to absent from school for a period of time, it is up to the parents to keep in touch with her teachers to get homework schedule...in this case, the young lady should take it upon herself to call her teachers for hmwk assignments!
LH
Wednesday, November 12, 2003 at 12:31:12 (EST)
As I previously posted, I think that although her actions were distasteful, I think it could be handled in a better fashion. In my High School (I graduated 11 years ago), being suspended for a week meant not being able to hand in homework, not being able to take tests, etc. This young lady's grades could be in serious jeapordy depending on what was going on for that week. She could have just been taken aside when she arrived at school, and told to change her clothing or go home. Perhaps give her detention for a few nights. But suspension (knowing what the consequences in my school were) - no way.

Secondly, I completely agree with Riley's mom. The best thing we can do for our children is to teach them all that they can about safe sex, so that they can make the right choices. These kids, yes, are children. But they are only a few (and some become turn 18 in school) years away from being adults. I certainly do not want to give my kids the impression that it is ok to go out and have sex (no way in HECK), but I do want them to know that if they are doing something stupid like that - to take precaution.

SH: Yay. I am so happy for you. You must be excited, huh. Have fun trying!!! Me, well, I'm almost 17 weeks. I went to the Dr. this week and was told I gained 9 pounds in 1 month. I nearly fell off my chair! Anyway, my husband and I have been faithfully going to the gym, and I'm vowing that I wont gain more than 4 pounds this month! Just dont want to have to worry about taking off all of this extra weight once our little sweetheart is here. Only 3 1/2 weeks till the ultrasound where we'll find out the baby's sex. Anyway, good luck to you and your hubby! Keep me posted.
A Goodwin
Wednesday, November 12, 2003 at 12:26:46 (EST)
Military Wife...I liked that! Thanks!
Cherokee
Wednesday, November 12, 2003 at 12:26:26 (EST)
Hi everyone. I have been gone for a while. I definatley think the school acted in the correct manner. This girl is in HS, and knows better, plain and simple. Im quite sure she violated the dress code, and therefore should be punsihed accordingly. And how is the school being dirty minded? If you dont mind me asking.
Lyne
Wednesday, November 12, 2003 at 12:07:24 (EST)
It's the soldier, not the reporter, who gave us our freedom of the press.
It's the soldier, not the poet, who gave us our freedom of speech.
It's the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gave us our freedom to demonstrate.
It's the soldier, who salutes the flag, who serves others with respect for the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag.

Happy Veterans Day to those who served us...one day late!
Military wife
Wednesday, November 12, 2003 at 11:50:38 (EST)
Vic...(AKA cherry pie eater - what?!)Ummm..I hardly think the school is being dirty minded..(Now I AM hollering here) SHE HAD CONDOMS PASTED ALL OVER HER CHEST AND BACK FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!! I am mom to five kids...several of whom of hot blooded teens - HELLO!! Do you not think that every young man/boy (who are at an age where there hormones are going nuts!)at that high school who looked at that shirt didn't think: (condoms = penis = sex). Nahhhh..that wasn't distracting AT ALL. Children need to learn boundaries. Someone needs to be in charge. Clearly the school simply enforced the boundaries because someone at home didn't. Duh.
Cherokee
Wednesday, November 12, 2003 at 09:58:38 (EST)
LH - I'm with you.
Cherokee
Wednesday, November 12, 2003 at 09:24:31 (EST)
Vic...but if the school has a RULE against t-shirts that distract from the learning environment, they have to enforce it on EVERYONE...not just the ones they deem unfit or just a really clever Halloween costume or a creative idea! DUH! What if the child walked into school with a shirt on that depicted people having sex, but they had condoms on...would you still say "MY, what a creative child"?

This debate is getting stupid!New question iparenting!!!
LH
Wednesday, November 12, 2003 at 06:55:56 (EST)
I think she was not wrongly suspended. She was very creative and the school was being unfair. Because she presented her ideas in a slightly explicit manner, it does not mean it is wrong. It is a very good example of Safe Sex and if the school thinks she is dirty minded. I believe the school themselves is dirty minded. The girl probably had no intention of increasing her sexual appeal. Schools tend to think wrong of children for everything they do. The school should think again abt the suspension and whether it was really nec. I as one do not believe so.
Vic
email: cherry_pie_eater90@hotmail.com
Wednesday, November 12, 2003 at 03:18:21 (EST)
I personally don't think the child was wrongly suspended. She clearly disrupted the education process by wearing her costume. A lot of you have said that it's the school's responsibility to teach safe sex. WRONG ANSWER. Many years ago, morals were taken OUT of the school, by parents...now as parents, you want them put back in. Make up your mind! Teachers lost all control over their classrooms a long time ago, when they were told that they couldn't do this, and couldn't do that, and the only thing they can do is teach the SUBJECT AREA, nothing else! How do you expect teachers to teach other things, when parents gripe when they do? If you want your child to learn the RIGHT things, you should teach them at home. NO, this is NOT the way it SHOULD be, but unfortunately, it's the way it is. Until teachers are given control again, don't expect them to cross the line, and teach things out of their subject area. Personally, I would love for my children to learn morals, and the basic right from wrong type things from teachers, but that does NOT happen any more.

As for the child, YES, she should have been supsended. She clearly disrupted school, and more than likely disregarded the dress code.

Just a mom
Tuesday, November 11, 2003 at 21:41:50 (EST)
OK, one more time here people...the school has rules against wearing anything to distract from the learning environment...the child broke the rule...the child pays the consequence for breaking the rule... the child is suspended! Hope that makes it abit easier to understand! TC all! :-)
LH
Tuesday, November 11, 2003 at 16:35:12 (EST)
First of all, I applaude this young lady's imagination. Secondly, I believe that she, just as the rest of us, have the right to freely express ourselves. Thirdly, she should NOT have been suspended. The school could have taken this opportunity to educate the students about the dangers of sexual activity as well as acknowledge that sex can be fun but is a serious matter that should not be taken lightly. There can be serious consequences from engaging in sexual activities. This young lady was taking a step in showing her peers that they need to think about the potential dangers of sexual activity. She should be praised for participating in the education of her peers in this "sensitive" area not punished. Obviously this school system needs to reflect upon the messages it sends the students. By punishing this young lady the school system essentially does not support educating students about the dangers of sex nor does is support educating the students about options to prevent/reduce risks involved with sex. The school system also supports censorship and restricting young minds from expressing themselves. If the school wants to dictate what students can and cannot wear for costumes at Halloween, it may be better to just not allow costume days in the school at all.
Mommy
email: mommy@yahoo.com
Tuesday, November 11, 2003 at 13:55:29 (EST)
To All: I have a question. Someone mentioned shouting in earlier posts. On the internet, if you type phrases or words in all-caps, does that imply that you are shouting? Someone please clue me in. If so, it must of looked like I was shouting - I wasn't and didn't mean to give that impression. It's just that there is no button that makes words or phrases go in italics, like things one would want to put emphasis on...so if it offended anyone I'm sorry.

To Vanessa: THANK YOU (saying that in an excited voice, as in relief) for the wealth of information you have provided. You are very nice to have taken the time to post so thoroughly. I appreciate your efforts a great deal. We have been tossing the idea around since the middle of last year to homeschool. The most recent chain of events has made us see the light. We have made the decision to home school and in our state we have to file an affidavit that is nortarized with the superintendant of schools. I am going to be networking today at naptime on the internet to see what my group options are and curriculum availability. Our church doesn't have any home schoolers, that was the first place I checked. Thank you again for sharing your positive experience with me and everyone else...it was just the little bit of extra encouragement I needed. Ok..my day care kiddies are arriving now so I must go...Have a beautiful day!!
Cherokee
Tuesday, November 11, 2003 at 11:17:23 (EST)
Whoa. I should have done a better job of proofing..I just re-read my post--lots of type-o's. My wife always jokes what a lousy typist I am. Sorry.
Concerned Parent
Tuesday, November 11, 2003 at 11:07:33 (EST)
Ramona...

Riiiiiighttt. "College-bred fuddy-duddies?" "Socialites" who make all the rules? How funny. Interestingly enough...I am "college bred" and I guess in our income bracket my wife and I would be considered "socialites". I have had a blast in life.

I believe in rules (people need a moral compass) and I certainly haven't missed out on any fun. What fun would that be anyway...rave parties with Ectasy? Sex with multiple partners so you HAVE to use condoms? Worrying about if the girl I had sex with the night before was someone I would run into in a grocery store three days from now and I have to avoid her because I "just wanted to do her" but don't respect her enough have a relationship with her? Would it be that fun of worrying whether or not the condom broke and maybe the girl had herpes or VD or warts and I'm infected now? Yep. Big fun!!

I also have been responsible, didn't act out like a fool for attention or break the law, etc. I also had parents who loved me, taught me right from wrong, to make good choices (they have rewards) and bad choices (they have consequences). As someone else said, good point, bad execution (or something like that). If you want to make a statement where people will listen...DO IT RIGHT!! Organizing chaos for a subject like that at school isn't the right forum. She just looked like an idiot starved for attention.

My wife and I personally teach not just abstinence, but self respect. We want our children to realize that they should cherish themselves until the right person comes along. It is discipline and self-respect. You know, sure, kids may do what they want anyway, as Riley's Mom keeps illustrating, but for our kids, we are preparing them from the spiritual standpoint. If she chose to rebel, well, that is not everyone's story. Maybe her parents didn't handle their discipline in a way that she needed to learn from. We are not terribly "religious people". We married our second year of college and we were both virgins...it was awesome. We didn't have any worries, and because we were virgins, it was extra special when we married. We know it is not the norm. But what a great feeling that we did it "right". We are not a boring family because we "do the right thing"...we rock climb as a family, last summer we took 2 months off and toured the west coast in an RV. The kids loved it. Some times they think we are pretty geeky. But folks I guarantee you, if you are involved as parents your kids will thank you later. We allow our teens to date, but we monitor it. We try to make sure we know where they are. Why is it such a sin in society now to expect your children to be accountable? You teens want us to support you financially, pay for your college, your expensive designer clothes, a vehicle to drive (and insurance), and class trips paid for. In return, as a parent this is what I expect: You love yourself and respect yourself, You make every effort to do well in school. You show me respect as a parent. You take pride in your property (i.e. keep your bedroom from becoming a health hazard). You conduct yourself in public in a way that is a positive reflection on your family. You TREAT OTHERS with the same respect I demand that you show yourself.

Ramona, maybe it just irks you that these parents are so involved...these Kids, (you said yourself) are still kids, and last time I checked, still need direction and supervision, love, support, guidance and most of all, adults who SET GOOD EXAMPLES FOR THEM FOLLOW. Maybe you are just a kid yourself who doesn't have that...and if that is true I am sorry for you. Your comment, "leave these kids alone" sounds like you are probably still a kid yourself. Since when do kids get to disrupt the school learning environment for other kids who make a good choice and behave? Since when do kids decide what they are going to do for themselves. Someone else said.."take your children back" and it's true. The person to blame is the un-involved parent, not the school, for enforcing rules... if there were no rules society would be mass chaos. Sorry this is long, but I HAD to respond.
Concerned Parent
Tuesday, November 11, 2003 at 11:02:36 (EST)
What is it with these socialites that make these STUPID rules anyway? They couldn't have fun, so no one else can? Did you ever notice these people who don't like a little fun are college bred fuddy-duds? Leave these KIDS alone!!!!!!
Ramona
email: kashmir2nite@aol.com
Tuesday, November 11, 2003 at 09:39:10 (EST)
Vanessa-thanks for the reading suggestions...I will check them out! I for one am very interested!
kerri
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 23:30:18 (EST)
i think that the young lady that was suspended for wearing a halloween costume promoting safe sex was wrongly susupened. safe sex is a important for all people who do not want children and better yet do not want a STD. people wear costumes about violence something that should be stoped but safe sex is important. most teenagers are having sex so the smart thing to do is protect themselves and do it rigth. being in denile is a bad thing as parents and teachers because sex is happening with teenagers everyday all over the world. everyday a child is conceived and a disease is spread because two irresponsible people having unsafe sex. protect yourself and make sure that safe sex is not only preeched but practiced.
Chantel Todd
email: chanlovely217@yahoo.com
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 20:45:30 (EST)
I am not saying that we shouldn't teach abstinence. But if that is all you teach, and they make their own choices there is still a possible life or death scenario.
Riley's Mom
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 19:01:19 (EST)
nice idea....bad execution. as far as i'm concerned, the costume is innappropriate.
Patrick
email: wolfwithowl@yahoo.com
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 16:28:03 (EST)
Cherokee-I'll try to answer your questions as best I can, but everyone's situation is different. Homeschool laws and the enforcement of those laws varies widely state to state, so... By the way, I'm including the answer to your questions in my post on this topic because I feel like so many parents are looking for alternatives, and might have questions like yours. Also, I'm no expert! There might be another parent out there with more info who can post.

Anyway, I became interested in homeschooling because it seemed like every time I turned around I was reading/hearing news about schools and education that was very unsettling. Not simply the violence/sex/peer pressure, but also about abysmal test scores, illiterate children being passed from grade to grade, and your own experiences with teachers/schools pressuring parents to abandon their gut instinct about their children and medicate them or have them placed in classes not appropriate for them. ADD/ADHD has become the "cure-all" for every educational/behavioral problem it seems. My response to that is that when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. All too often when a child is an academic or behavioral problem, the teacher/school wants to slap the ADD/ADHD label on them, as if that's going to make it all go away. My nephew, who I helped raise, was diagnosed in kindergarted, and trust me, the intervention did little or nothing to alleviate the original problems. That's not to say that some children do not suffer with genuine organic problems, but I do believe that the ADD/ADHD label is horribly abused.

Anyway, the more I read on the topic of education, the more I became convinced, as I said in an earlier post, that no one could teach my child better than me. Nothing against teachers, but this is MY FLESH, MY CHILD, and no one cares about her more than me. Learning is not some mythical, magical process that only an uber-elite group of educators can unleash in a child. It is a by-product of living, and if it's approached in the right manner, a child can learn ANYTHING (I really believe that!) at home if the parent is committed to helping that child, is willing to go with the flow and realize that learning often happens in spurts, not on a textbooks chapter schedule, and is willing to take the good and the bad together. Society would have us think that, for some reason, the moment our child turns five, we as parents suddenly become idiots not capable of teaching our child to read, to write, to add/subtract/ or to adapt in society. Not true. By the way, did you know that 74% of high school seniors CANNOT read on an eighth grade level--about the level of a People magazine??? There are currently over TWO MILLION children being taught at home, and test scores make it painfully obivious that, in general, homeschooled children far exceed public/private schooled children in many areas. In fact, homeschooled children perform an average of four grade levels above their public schooled peers. Why is that? More research has shown that the difference is related to some obvious factors: one-on-one attention from a loving parent who is not responsible for 25 other children, who knows that child's strengths/need, interests, etc, is infinitely better for helping that child learn.

I got started simply by deciding that this was what I wanted to do. Thankfully, my husband was in complete agreement with me, and is supportive. I knew two other homeschooling couples that I met through church, and they anwered a lot of my questions. They helped point me in the direction of a local support group, but that info should be available on the internet. On your search engine, type in the name of your city followed by "home school support group," or some variation of those words and you should be able to find what you need. Or call some local churches and ask to be put in contact with a homeschooling family in the church. I recommend churches not to promote any religion, but because that's where you're likely to find the greatest concentration of homeschooling families in one place. Also, many states require homeschools to be under an "umbrella organization" such as a church.

Also, the library has been a huge resource for me, so check out some books on the topic. They are not homeschooling books per se, but two books I think EVERY parent should read are: The Educated Child, by William J. Bennett (former Sec'y of Education), and Inside American Education, by Thomas Sowell. They are EYE OPENERS!

As for costs, you can go as expensive as you want, or as inexpensive as you want. I think on average, a packaged curriculum will cost you between $150.00 and $300.00 per year. But, many parents choose not to use a packaged curriculum and devise their own based on what they feel their child needs to learn. For instance, if your child excells in math, the math workbooks in the curriculum for her grade may be inadequate, and not challenging enough. So, many parents modify and devise lesson plans of their own. Sounds intimidating, but works for many people. Homeschooling is usually much less expensive than private and even public schooling. With public schooling, there are fees to be paid, lunches to be bought, field trips, you name it. The latent costs are pretty high when you think about it. But aside from saving money, I can't tell you how relieving it is to NOT have to constantly plan our lives around school. If we want to take off on a long weekend out of town, it's no problem. Our learning goes with us! Also, if we have the opportunity to participate in evening events, I'm not worried about having to get a sleepy child up and ready for school the next morning. It's very liberating.

Homeschoolers in many communities arrange social outings as a group. They coordinate field trips, playgroups, things like that, in order to help their children make contact with other kids. Again, a local support group could give you more info. It's really not as hard to keep a homeschooled child active in "the outside world" as many think!

Back to the topic at hand, I have to say, once again, that I'm appalled at the blase' attitude so many have toward young children and sex. Why do we have to assume they are going to have sex? It sounds so PC to say, well they are gonna do it, so we might as well tell them how to be safe. Let me ask this...when you talk to your child about drugs (if you do) do you say, well don't shoot up, but if you do, be sure to use a clean needle? What's the difference? In our time, sex can be just as dangerous as drugs. I just read an article about a 34 year old woman who crosses the country teaching abstinence to children. Yes, she's a virgin, and is committed to remaining one until she's married. IT IS POSSIBLE!

I know this is a long post, and thanks to anyone who stuck with me! If I can help anymore, I'll be glad to e-mail more info or resources that have helped me to anyone who wants it.
Vanessa
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 16:16:08 (EST)
Yep, I'll have to agree its funny how a topic can branch off into so mnay different discussions!

Cherokee...sorry, I just re-read your post...must have skipped a few things...anyways best of luck to you and your daughter! (eSupportGroups is a great site tho! Lots of different health topics!)

Iparenting has been pretty good lately about putting up new questions in a timely manner...I think this one has been debated thoroughly...anyone for a new question?
LH
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 15:44:05 (EST)
Funny how this topic turned into a chat about homeschooling, and I'm sooo glad that everyone is being nice about it :o)

I have a 10 month old daughter and I love her more than life itself, and I plan on sending her to Public School. I went to Public School and I wasn't particularly popular, and I know that kids are mean these days, and there are many things that I'd love to shelter her from. But..who is going to shelter her when she goes to highschool? College or University? Gets a job? No one in those facilities will take extra time with students, and they won't give a rats a$$ whether or not the kid passes or fails. Unfortuantely there will come a day when the parents can no longer be there.

I also beleive that our Province (I'm in Ontario) gives fairly decent teaching guidelines, and if I want her to excel I will take the extra time to teach her outside of school. I will also teach her about God and about our Christian values.

HOWEVER, I do commend those people who do homeschool successfully, and whose children do grow to be social, well rounded individuals. If it's working for you, then congratualtions and keep up the good work. I just know that I personally couldn't and wouldn't want to homeschool my kids.

A GOODWIN-AF finally arrived! We can finally TTC! How far along are you now???
SH
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 15:28:08 (EST)
Riley's Mom - no need to SHOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Liz
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 14:44:11 (EST)
m.j. - No need to shout. I don't think this student was promoting safe sex. I think she thought of a clever Halloween Costume and decided to see if she could get away with it. If she were passing them out to her friends and talking to them about safety issues then we would praise her. I agree with Kerri, she is getting more attention than she deserves, but that was probably her real intention.
Liz
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 14:42:47 (EST)
LIZ-
I was quoting SOMEONE ELSE
Riley's Mom
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 14:40:27 (EST)
I GUESS IF SHE HAD A MARIJUANA LEAF SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN PRAISED. I THINK THE CHILDREN SHOULD BE THE ONE TO HELP PROMOTE SAFE-SEX. AS A MOTHER OF A 16 YEAR-OLD MALE I TALK TO HIM ON A REGULAR BASIS ABOUT THINGS HE MIGHT WANT TO KNOW. I DON'T WANT HIM GETTING MIXED MESSAGES.
m.j
email: mu_john2003@yahoo.com
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 14:33:01 (EST)
Thinking back to my high school days I remember kids wearing much worse and getting away with it!
Times have changed. I remember being 16 years old in the early 90's and seeing boys wearing black T-Shirts with pictures of a girls being raped or having sex by a demon or something. I was disgusted by this, but nothing was done about it at my school. I looked at the person wearing the shirt with disgust and contempt for not thinking anything about it. I think it was a "Metallica" band shirt. Nowadays I know for a fact that the high school I went to explicitly states no T-Shirts having anything to do with sex may be worn,since my brother in law goes there. I think pictures of cartoon people having sex is different than having a bunch of condoms taped on your shirt. If anything, she probably would not have had many left after homeroom! She was given more attention from this than she deserved.
Kerri
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 14:32:28 (EST)
Riley's Mom: You just contradicted yourself. First you said no one could know what the student was thinking, then you said "they were NOT trying to make a statement, clearly". Which is it?
Liz
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 14:32:09 (EST)
"...THE POINT is that a high school student here was NOT trying to make a STATEMENT...clearly....."
Riley's Mom
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 13:50:13 (EST)
Riley,

What does her intentions have to do with the fact she violated school rules? No one is trying to read minds, just going with the facts presented. her intentions are irrelevant in this case.

yes we all have to do our best with teaching our children, but how does that relate to this kid breaking the rules? You are right, kids dont always make the best decisions. this is a perfect example. she chose to challange the rules and she got disciplined accordingly.


PJB
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 13:48:08 (EST)
Cherokee,

I was just reading your post below regarding ADHD. I am appalled that the teacher would try to diagnose something like that. THEY are not doctors, they are teachers! they seem to want to take the easy way out, drug em up and put them in special classes. It seems they will do and suggest anything to make their jobs as educators easier. kids are unique and everyone needs to be reached in different ways. this rush to medicate developing minds is alarming. If you have the means, take your girl and run from that institution. Trust your instincts and your doctor's advice. good luck and more power to you!

PJB
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 13:43:47 (EST)
I don't think any of us can say for sure what this girls intentions were or weren't. You can't read minds and neither can I.
And while KELLI's relative may or may not have been there, you can't believe everything you read or see posted.

Teach your children your morals and values. But in the end they make desisions, and they don't always make the right ones.
You can search them at the door, go through thier things. It still happens.
I grew up in a family where I was dictated to, I still managed to rebel. While the choices I made weren't the best, I was smart enough to be safe. Had I not had the appropriate knowledge things could have gotten very ugly.

In the end my parents are proud that I changed my choices and was smart about the past choices.
Riley's Mom
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 13:40:24 (EST)
OMG I'm laughing so hard right now...I said "I don't mind sitting on the potty all day long" LOL! Need another cup o'joe I guess. The kiddies are nappin right now and maybe I need one too..I meant to say..."I don't mind sitting HER on the potty all day long....". Geez.
Cherokee
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 13:27:24 (EST)
I dont think anyone is saying that teens should not be informed of their choices, but it is not this girl's place to deliver the message. To further elaborate on LH's points below, there is a dress code and standards of conduct to follow at school and this girl violated them. The school simply disciplined her according to their rules. It should not matter what the content of her supposed message was, that fact that she voilated school rules is the problem. People are being blinded by the fashionable PC message on her shirt. Ignore that for minute, what if she was wearing something see through or something with a violent message? Many of this girl's defenders would be singing a different tune. The point is the girl violated the rules, period.

PJB
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 13:27:01 (EST)
So if we can't beat 'em, join 'em huh?
Riley's MOM:
I agree that we need to equip our kids with knowledge, etc. I think maybe the point has been missed here with all of this "Freedom of Speech and Self-Expression" flag-waving going on here. THE POINT is that a high school student here was NOT trying to make a STATEMENT...clearly (according to KELLI's post whose relative was THERE, we were NOT)Thie girl was instructed to change and refused. She blatently decided to break the rules, and probably this was not a first time offense for the kid. Who knows? Maybe she is a repeat offender for attention getting at school and isn't that sad.

Maybe her parents also have the attitude.."we can't keep her leashed forever and they are going to do what they are going to do", and "it's not our fault". THAT sounds like the EASIER way out. Seems to me the HARDER more CONSISTENT option is tackling the issue that made her do it, and it is certainly not assigning blame by any means. Her mother should have checked her daughter's butt at the door...and said "No way missy are you going out dressed in rubbers (unless it's raining :0)

When are parents going to TAKE THEIR KIDS BACK and stop expecting the schools and society to RAISE THEIR CHILDREN!!!! One of my daycare moms actually expects ME to potty train her daughter. I don't mind sitting on the potty all day, it's my job to give this direction. But, I learned that she is keeping her 3.5 year old in pull ups from the time she gets home and not even putting her on the potty. Here I have been consistent working with her all day rewarding her potties, etc and mom is doing NADA at home. And she complains that her daughter "is just not getting it".. How can she for the love of Pete? This is an epidemic. Another example (albeit of smaller proportions) of how society is expecting everyone else to handle their children instead of where it belongs...with mom and dad. And we wonder how kids actually arrive at school with guns...
Cherokee
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 13:21:04 (EST)
Sorry You can't keep them leashed forever. Typing too fast!
Riley's Mom
USAMonday, November 10, 2003 at 12:49:32 (EST)
I don't think we can look to blame certain individuals for promoting sex. The thing is that kids are having it. While I understand placing blame is easier to do, it most certainly not going to change the minds of those that are going to do it.

What we need to do is teach our children about choices (smart choices).
We can preach to kids all we want, but we still need to give them the knowledge out there to protect themselves if the choice they make isn't the one we want.
Kids rebel. It's a fact of life.

Arm your children with the knowledge that can save their lives. If they don't have this information they may get into more trouble.

Remember you can keep them leashed forever.
Riley's Mom
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 12:47:56 (EST)
LH..Thanks for the tip on the site for ADD...according to my doc tho, she is not ADD or ADHD. I think personally she is very artsy (alot like my oldest girl...I have 2 girls and three boys).

My oldest daughter actually has already completed her program and taken her boards..she is licensed now. She is doing continued education in sports medicine. She is working part time at a couple of spas/resorts. I have to tell ya..alot of folks think it's a great business and it is - if you have your clientele built up. She makes incredible money for each massage therapy session, but if you only had 5-8 clients that week, then (Ring.."Hi Mom, it's me. Work is great, but I only had 8 clients this week." translation: "My electric bill is due Friday..can I borrow $65.00?"LOL!)It's alright tho, she is working at that, and just took a parttime job at an ad agency to cover her "lean weeks". We are proud of her. She tries to do the right thing (had her share of "stuff" tho). She did teach me some awesome infant massage when we had our last baby.
Cherokee
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 12:29:34 (EST)
I agree with the school a high scool student does not need to enforce safe sex with condoms. The safest way for students to enforce safe sex in by not having sex and doing what the BIBLe says sex is for MARRIED people.Let the students where clothing that says what the bible says in first corinthians chp:6&7........
Mrs.AieshaBrown
email: aiesha_73@hotmail.com
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 12:13:29 (EST)
PD...wow, what a statement! You seem so strong in your beliefs and I'm all for that, but personally, I try to look at things in a more positive light and that the world is not all doom and gloom!

PJB...thanks! I still believe in following the rules!!!

Cameragirl...so does this mean we could possibly be neighbors?? :-)

Cherokee...your oldest is studying to be a massage therapist? That has to be a very rewarding job! I just started seeing one for trigger point massage..OUCH!...but it does seem to be helping!!! Also wanted to let you know there is a great new site called "eSupportGroups" with a forum devoted to ADD! Its quite new and just getting started so there aren't many posts yet...but I'm personally involved so to speak so I thought I'd give it a PLUG! (LOL!) Also here is a great site: http://www.add.org/

TC all! Its Monday....
LH
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 12:02:42 (EST)
LH, you hit the nail on the head with the fact that the rules are there to be followed, not challanged by some goofball trying to make a "statement". RIGHT ON!!

PD, you are so right. your comments on today's moral depravity account for all of today's dilemas. (However I have not heard about the pill issue though....it does not seem outside the realm of possibility though.) Be ready for the attacks from the "its a fetus not a baby" crowd. They frequent here quite a bit. Sickeningly ironic though because this is a parenting/pg/baby/child website. Keep fighting the good fight!!!


PJB
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 11:16:17 (EST)
VANESSA...I have been reading your posts and I just want to say that I really respect what you are doing with the homeschooling. My children (5 of them)range in age from 9 months to age 20. My twenty year old (already in her own apartment)just graduated from massage therapy school and is an LMT now, she is going to be specializing in sports medicine. My two boys who are 10 and 12 are pretty good students at our pubic school here. My daughter who is 6 is really struggling. She is definitely the free spirit type, all hearts and flowers and unicorns. She reads, is quite good at math, and of course her best subjects are art, music and PE. The teacher calls me weekly to complain of her "lack of concentration, I think she is ADHD. She should try ritalyn, but in anycase, I want to resource her to special ed for 4 hours per day" She has asked me three times to consent to this transfer and I have refused. As a trained and educated medical person, I see none of the criteria markers for this condition. I took her to our pediatrician, who concurred that she is NOT ADHD. He said and I quote: "Your daughter is a tactile learner, she needs to EXPERIENCE things to understand them, and that may be more challenging for some teachers, especially with classrooms getting larger, but she is certainly not learning disabled and shouldn't be thrown in with kids who are."

I shared this with the teacher, who very condescendingly said "Well, he is a doctor, but he is not a teacher" (?!) I have sat down with my child to help with homework. When she sees a picture for an exercise, she simply is interested in what is going on with the picture. But, she is reading, spelling, writing, and is quite good at math. I think the teacher doesn't want to take the extra 10 minutes to deal with her. I'm furious that if I handn't investigated the situation further, I might have taken her word, and my daugher would now be in special ed where no one would understand what is really going on. I feel like (at this school anyway) the minute the kid requires an extra few minutes, off they go to special ed. She has no criteria for ADHD, does not have behavior issues, and by the teacher's own admission "is very sweet to be around". When we do her homework with her, she does need to be reminded to focus and stay on task, but not to the point where I would suspect ADHD. We are very frustrated. What is worse...my little girl was SO excited about starting school, now I have to drag her from bed and she is in tears before she goes, because it isn't a good experience with the teacher harping on her. This is heartbreaking for her dad and I. The school refused a classroom change. Also, I should mention, emotionally she is young - very innocent. I didn't feel in my "mommy's gut" she was ready for first grade. I asked for her to repeat kindergarten last summer before registering her for 1st grade. She was tested and they said, "She doesn't meet the criteria to be held back - she really is ready acedemically for 1st grade - don't worry she'll adjust". I remided them at the last parent/teacher conference that I wanted to hold her back and they said basically she was smart enough for first grade and refused. Now (it's only November) they want to throw her in with the medicated children who have behavior problems AND are learning disabled, (not to be discrimanatory, but she doesn't belong there). We are so frustrated. My husband and I have considered homeschooling. I run day care out of my home at the moment, so I can be at home with the children (I planned on returning to nursing when they are much older). What are your thoughts? I'm curious as to how you made contacts for homeschooling. How did you get started, what were the costs, and what do you do to facillitate peer groups for you child? I've included my email address: cherubcareaz@yahoo.com Hope I'm not being too forward, but I'm very interested in doing this for my little girl. Sorry this was so long, but I just wanted to give a little background. Thanks!
Cherokee
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 10:49:51 (EST)
I have to say I am shocked at the positive, or at worst neutral, responses homeschooling has elicited here! I really was expecting to get bashed by at least one numbskull!

Cameragirl--thanks for your input. And, I have to say that for me, my child not knowing who Brittany Spears is would be a GOOD THING! She is about the worst role model for an adolescent girl I can think of, just my opinion. She may be an adult now, but I've read that the majority of her fans are teenaged girls. To me, this is another advantage of keeping my daughter at home. How would it benefit her to know who Brittany Spears is...IT WOULDN'T! I really don't think Brittany has anything positive to offer young girls. So, having my daughter at home makes me able to be more picky about thinks like that, for which I'm grateful.

Other issues, like 9/11, could easily be incorporated into homeschooling...just pick up a newspaper or magazine related to the topic to go through with your children on their level. That depends on the ages, though. For very young children, I think just answering their questions is sufficient. Often, I think we give our young childern too much info, when just answering their questions will suffice. I know it's hard sometimes to stay conected to the "outside world," but it can be done. I applaud any parent who chooses to homeschool, even though there will be difficulties. But those difficulties must be kept in perspective. For instance, one mother posted about the teachers losing her child's homework. So, sending your child to school doesn't, in any way, mean there won't be difficulties to deal with.

I think the issue of positive vs. negative influences is very pertinent to the topic addressed here. The topic just tells us that this girl was in high school. In my area, ninth grade is the beginning of high school. What if this girl was, say, a junior or senior? That means that children as young as fourteen would possibly have to watch this seventeen or eighteen year old girl waltz down the halls of school with condoms all over her shirt. Some may be OK with that, but I wouldn't be. I do believe that fourteen is still too young to understand all of the intricacies of sex. I wouldn't want my fourteen year old exposed to that.
Vanessa
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 10:39:24 (EST)
PD-Wow, what a statement. But unfortunately, I agree with much of what you wrote just never realized as much. Thanks for putting things in sight again!
LH-dh has an interview next month out that way and I have never been there to know if it is a "nice" or not area to raise a family...
cameragirl
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 08:45:31 (EST)
I just submitted my thoughts (see below) on the girl w/ the condoms on T-Shirt. I scanned down after writing my first message and was absolutely stupefied to read some of the nonchalant responses (granted the girl made poor judgement, and in disobeying the school's guidelines. I stand by my statement that the school made the right decision of suspension--and by the way, KUDOS to all of you who are choosing to home school your children!!). But I digress regarding "nonchalant" responses. I lived thru the era of the age of Aquarious, the flower children, the hippies, et.al. and it was all a LIE of concupiscence, rebellion, unforseeable deceit, fornication, adultry and every sin you could think of! My generation opened up the door to let Satan and his minions in big time--darkness and sin, not light and truth!You and your children are reaping the negative, pagan realism of our dark and secular culture today of materialism, greed, lust, lies and everything that goes against the natural and moral law. For this I am very sorry, but you must open up the eyes and ears of your souls. What is WRONG has become RIGHT, what is RIGHT has become WRONG! I will give you a good example: contraception came onto the scene big time in the '50's & early '60's. Whether one knows it or not, the birth control pill or patch is an abortifacient, it causes abortion of a "child-to-be" over and over and over again. Their is much data being assimilated (which you will not hear about in the biased media coverage) that the birth control pill has had a serious adverse effect on children's sexual orientation: homosexual vs. heterosexual. Have you ever wondered why in the last 5 or 10 years there is a preponderence of great numbers of homosexual, lesbian, bisexual oriented individuals, not only in the United States but all over the world? The unknown, created by man and NOT by God's ordained plan, undeniably affects the world and all mankind. Include in that cloning and bioengineering of our food supply. Scientists are finding out now as they did with cloning that foods they are trying to genetically engineer or alter is becoming a Pandora's Box of monstrous results. What God created is coming back full circle to abrogate and repudiate those who today are playing GOD and who say God does not exist! Woe to us all. One last thing I would like to share, that science and statistics are proving, abortion causes breast cancer. You will never be told this at Planned Parenthood or by an abortionist! Nor will you be allowed to see on a sonogram that there is a living human being inside the mother's womb, not a blob of tissue. At ten weeks of conception, the baby is fully formed. It's tiny feet and hands so perfectly detailed are a little less than 1/2 inch long. You will also not be told that the babies body parts are sold to some prestigious hospital's and Institutions. A torso can sell for $700, legs and arms for $200 to $400; the head, I literally couldn't bear to hear or SEE anymore! If anyone objects to these comments, I'm sorry. But there is a great deal of information the media, the politicians and those with liberal agendas don't want our youth and young adults or us to know. Why should the truth be hidden when our youth and young adults opt for casual sex, pleasure and fear NO consequences when they ignore God's Ten Commandents, not God's Ten Suggestions! This is a serious issue to me as I guess anyone reading this can tell. One atheist, Madeline O'Hare, got prayer thrown out of the schools. One atheist in California wants "one Nation under God" removed from the Pledge of Allegiance and is taking it to the Supreme Courts. God's Name cannot be mentioned in secular America anymore, but the holy name of Jesus Christ can be used sacrilegiously in vain in any movie and certain TV channels ad nauseaum! Who are we, people? What is Truth? And what will we stand up for and or against before it is too late? P.D. Suggestion: PRAY, PRAY, PRAY from the heart for this country and the world!!---
PDeadwyler
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 07:08:04 (EST)
ABSOLUTELY!! This was totally inappropriate because #1 the uninformed teen is promoting sex; #2 condoms are NOT SAFE--there is no such thing as "safe-sex", esp. if you read the FAILURE rate of condoms. #3 the lie of promiscuity promoted by Hollywood moivies, TV and their stars & starlets (in their real lives too) is the main reason 40 million+ unborn human beings have been murdered in the U.S. since l973. The most UNSAFE place to be today is in a Mother's womb!! #4 So called "safe-sex" belies itself by the horrifying number of AIDS/HIV cases, genital Warts, genital Herpes, Clamydia, Gonorrhea---a veritable host of sexually transmitted diseases that maim and KILL for a 2 second (fill in the blank)! I do not think for 1 minute her "T-shirt" agenda was funny or appropriate because it sadly shows the mind-set of our youth today and how mis-guided and uninformed they really are!! BRAVO to that School!! P.D.
PDeadwyler
email: pdeadwyler@hotmail.com
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 02:20:20 (EST)
JMO...I ended up watching "Saving Jessica Lynch" while I folded laundry from my laundry-a-thon today! Whew, what a day! On the schooling issue...hate to say it but unfortunately no matter how well informed you are, you never know what your in for until your into it...or in my case, almost over with it!

Cameragirl..thank you! Our school is considerd one of the better ones and we've got the taxes to prove it (Arggg!)...but I find the teachers are "slacking" here lately and my daughter is trying so hard to keep her grades up! Sometimes it seems WE are the only ones that notice! And the teachers that lost her homework (2 different teachers..2 different assignements..1 of them was 8 pages long!! This happened within a week of each other!)I called to talk to the one, but had my daughter handle the other situation...I was so angry I felt she had better or I might "offend"! Eventually here my husband and I plan to go in for conferences and will be requesting a conference with the principal and guidence counselor too about what can be done to ensure this won't happen again and also to let them know that we are paying attention! OK...better quit "venting" and get my butt to bed! Night all!!TC!

PS...I live up the river from Cinci! :-)
LH
Monday, November 10, 2003 at 00:04:40 (EST)
thanks VANESSA, for the info. and LH, for being so supportive as always. i certainly wouldn't let anyone's negative opinions affect my choices and decisions in raising my child, but i feel that since i have a few years before homeschooling, i want to get as much info as i can. and i want to hear both the positive and negative so i know what i'm in for. i do find homeschooling to be a very interesting, informative debate..

i'm watching the elizabeth smart story right now...it's pretty good!
nite all!
j-mo
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 23:12:49 (EST)
absolutely!
greyhoundlover
email: greyhoundlover@comcast.net
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 23:11:50 (EST)
Just read some of the posts on home schooling. I find it sad that someone would belittle someone else for choosing to homeschool their own children. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who commits to educating their own kids should be given an award or something. My brother's wife quit her full time job to do just this for their (now)almost-8-yr-old girl and 6-yr-old boy; all the while juggling the demands of their latest addition of a 7-month-old boy (and she's nursing too!!). After seeing what a challenge(though rewarding) this can be, my hat is off to anyone who has the talent/courage to do it. Even though I've thought about it for our baby boy, I'm not sure I have what it takes to homeschool even if we decided that it was for us.
Best of luck to you homeschoolers!

Philbert
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 22:58:14 (EST)
oops...LH, I meant "public schools" in my message. I think you mentioned before living in Ohio. Do you live near Cincinnati by chance?
cameragirl
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 22:53:33 (EST)
Hi all again!
LH- from our previous discussions this past year you seem like a very loving INVOLVED mother. From the way you describe your daughter she seems like a very mature and level headed young woman. One I too would be very proud of if I were you and your husband! I was never intending for you to feel you needed to justify your decision to "not" send you child to public school. I firmly believe it depends on the area you live in. If you pay high taxes and as a result get good schools out of it, why not use them and send your children to them. If however you live in an area of "not so good" schools, then send them to private if you can. I will definitely send my children to a private school if the public ones don't meet up to our expectations when we move next year. Although it all depends on where dh gets a job after graduate school...
- Vanessa: Please don't feel offended by anyone giving their opinion on the home schooling debate. I think there are both positives and negatives to the issue, just like any other topic. Everyone has an opinion and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think it is great that you want to raise your child in the way you described. And for it, she is a very lucky child. I do however have a friend who is a physician and her husband is a music instructor. They have tried both private and public schools for their oldest 3 of 6 kids and finally decided to home school them due to the curriculum of the schools that they didn't agree with. Besides thinking she is a glutton for punishment (working fulltime with 6 kids under the age of 11 AND home schooling) she has many times told us they don't know what is going on in the "real" world. These kids have no clue who Brittany Spears is or the actual events of 9/11. This could be a good thing or a bad thing. If they don't know what is going on outside their home, what is going to happen to them when they hit high school... or better yet leave home completely and go off to college and see the "norm"? Someone mentioned girls kissing in the hallway. What would you do if your children saw this? I do wish we lived in a utopian society, but it will never happen...
Cameragirl
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 22:48:46 (EST)
Thank you for answering my questions Vanessa! I wish you lots of luck with your little one!!! :-)

Hiya JMO! I kinda had some of our discussions about home schooling in mind when I asked Vanessa that question! Hun, never let anyone or anything make you feel bad for your decission on how to raise your child...ignore them and folow your heart!

Thanks Kelli for posting! Having a teenager myself I kinda figured it was an authority problem!
LH
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 22:23:47 (EST)
Hi, j-mo. I wanted to answer your questions so here goes:

My daughter is Pre-K so we are just getting to the age that people think I should send her to school. Well, people have been asking me since she was two when we were going to put her somewhere that she could "learn!" But, I have been actively teaching her since she was about two. I didn't want there to be a day when we "started school," so we've made learning a part of everyday. If you do choose to homeschool, I completely recommend a homeschool support group. People who can answer your questions and give you an ear to talk to can be invaluable! And don't feel odd by doing a combination of homeschool and public school. Lots of people homeschool, then enroll their children in public/private school for a time, and vice versa. Do what works for you and your family.

I do appreciate Kelli's shedding more light on this subject. It does put a different spin on the topic when you know that this child was being openly defiant. Perhaps the penalty for defiance is suspension, whereas the penalty for wearing inappropriate clothing would simply have been to change the clothes and return to school. I'm sure we'll be hearing more about this.
Vanessa
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 22:01:11 (EST)
hi everyone. i've just been reading the posts for the last few days, and i'm so glad that KELLI wrote, giving us more details about the incident, ie being asked to remove the shirt etc.

as many of you have said, if this girl knowingly broke the rules and was insubordinate, then punishment was definitely in order. as far as suspension goes, well we don't know the girl's behavioral history with the teachers. so maybe it was a fitting punishment. even if it was a tad bit extreme, perhaps other kids will think twice about violating school policies, no matter how trivial they seem.

VANESSA, very interesting. i am the mother of a 2yr old, a 12 yr old stepdaughter and a 13 yr old stepson, the latter both being in public school. i have already decided to homeschool my 2 yr old (definitely by middle school) and have already felt some "pressure" that this would be the WRONG thing for my child. i'm interested to know, if you don't mind, how old is your child? and how long have you been homeschooling? thanks!

also do you find more people are supportive of this or negative? not that it really matters in the end, just curious.

take care all
CAMERAGIRL, nice to "see" you after so long!
j-mo
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 21:44:11 (EST)
Hi ya'll. I don't usually leave posts on sites, but I feel so strongly on this issue. First, this incident happened where I went to high school, and where my dad works. The girl was told to change her shirt well before school ever started and refused to do so. So basically, she was breaking the dress code and being insubordinate to the staff. And as a public school teacher, this is something we are dealing with more and more everyday. So many kids come to school with chips on their shoulders and no respect for adults. How can you say this girl was just being a kid? She was obviously unconcerned with the rules and regulations surrounding her and unconcered with respecting the people who come to work everyday to help her become a better person. I give so much of myself every day to help my kindergartners understand how to be a good person besides how to read and my husband does the same with his high school students. This is an issue that started at home and schools can't take lightly to students being rude and disrespectful to the rules set for them. They may not follow rules at home, but that is an even bigger reason for them to learn to follow rules at school. The adult world doesn't cater to people who want to do their own thing and bosses will do worse than suspend you for one day if you blatantly ignore rules and suggestions made by them. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind and I'm climb down from my soapbox now, but its something for you to think about...our kids won't learn anything if they learn they can disregard authority at a young age.
Kelli
email: kellbell_6@hotmail.com
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 20:27:05 (EST)
I think that the teenage girl who wore the t-shirt depecting safe sex with condoms taped on it was great! For the school to suspend her for dressing differently on halloween and presenting a good point was not right. The reason the school did this is that they beleived it would upset some parents and they would receive alot of calls and letters, so before this happened they suspended the girl to solve the problem, most definatley inappropiate.
I am the mother of a almost thirteen year old girl and her view differs from mine. My daughter says that she beleives what the girl did is a bad influence on other kids, because it might give teenagers the impression that it is ok to have sex as long as you are protected. I can certainly understand my daughters point as well. I must say though that if they told the kids that they could wear halloween costumes to school, which of course im not sure of, then if the costume was offensive/inappropriate, they could have had her taken the condoms off, or possibly sent her home.
Cindy Butler
email: destinyoc@msn.com
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 18:15:11 (EST)
LH, I recognize that there are about as many parenting styles as there are parents (!), so yes, I believe we all have to do what we feel is in our child's (and family's) best interests. My husband and I believe strongly that we are doing just that, as I'm sure many others do.

To answer your question (and thank you for posing it politely--I've often refrained from posting here because I don't want to deal with the immaturity some like to pour out on sites like this), we do give our daughter times of interaction with other children her age. I have a neice who is a couple of years older than my daughter who plays at our house frequently. My daughter loves her dearly, and they get along great. Also, my daughter takes a gymnastics class, and she has a blast. It's a small group of children her age, and it's organized in a very child-friendly manner. We are frequently at the playground, where my daughter has the opportunity to meet/interact with many other children of different ages, ethnicities, etc. A couple of other mothers and I meet up there about once a week. In addition, we attend church at least twice weekly. So yes, my daughter is around other children, and I don't see from her behavior that she desires any more time with other children than she receives. In my opinion, she is very "social." She's polite and mannerly to others, outgoing, adventurous, and in no way resembles the socially inept, isolated hermit I think people sometimes envision when they hear "homeschool kid." To top it off, she's super duper, extraordinarily brilliant!! Of course that's just my opinion, but others do tell me that she's very bright!

I really don't think children need large amounts of time, structured or not, with other children. I don't believe (again, just my opinion) that anyone is better equipped to prepare my child for life than we as her parents are. No one loves her NEARLY as much, has as much invested in her, wants to see her succeed as much as us. No one knows her better--how she learns, what she knows/doesn't know, what her strengths/weaknesses are. So, I asked myself a question...WHO BETTER TO TEACH HER THAN US??? For me and my husband, the answer was "no one."

I am in no way bashing those who choose other ways. I went to public schools all my life, and my husband attended a church owned private school. We both turned out OK if you ask me! But, there were aspects of both of those upbringings that I didn't want my child exposed to. Many parents on this board have posted about the stories their school-age children tell them---girls making out in hallways, foul language as the norm, the pressures of social expectations placed on children at such young ages when they are ill-equipped to deal with them. Perhaps it's not like that in EVERY school, but in our situation, I knew I didn't want to expose my child to that. Also, I read recently of two young teenage school children who were expelled from school (in Ohio, I think) for performing oral sex on the school bus. Would any parent want to think that their priceless, innocent, beautiful child might be sitting in the bus seat next to that??? I think probably not. As I said, I know it's not this bad everywhere, and those who can send their children to school with assurance should be grateful--not every parent can.

Keeping our daughter at home gives us the opportunity to have more control over the situations and people she's exposed to. To some that might sound too controlling, but she IS our child--it's our responsibility to guide and protect her. I would be very uncomfortable knowing that the chances were high that she would see/hear/experience something harmful or damaging to her whether it be emotionally or physically, and in any situation, not just school.

Sorry to ramble, but I am passionate about this. I think we can all agree on one point though--our children are the most wonderful, most priceless treasure we will ever be given, and we only have the chance to raise them well ONE TIME. The way we choose to do that is up to us, and my husband and I have chosen our path.

Again, thanks for your courtesy LH--I hope you feel that I've extended the same to you.
Vanessa
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 17:35:49 (EST)
I don't think it is really fair for any parent to criticize anothers way of parenting as long as they are holding their childs best interests at hand...each to his/her own!

So Vanessa, I am not being critical(just asking a question)when I ask how is it helpful for your child to be around you as parents constantly and not with their peers...do you also let them interact and learn with other children their age?
LH
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 16:07:50 (EST)
Mary...you made a great point, and one which I've never even thought about. It's totally off the subject, but it really rang true with me when you posted that people often get ridiculed when they say they homeschool. I would NEVER criticize someone who chooses to send their child to school, public or private, but I've received some negative feedback about keeping my daughter at home. Why is that, I wonder? I think it's because people often have misconceptions about homeschooled children. People tend to think, and it was even posted here, that homeschooled children are "sheilded" from the outside world, when just the opposite is true. Homeschooled children live every day in the "real world," not the artificially created society that extists in school (children of the same age or age group, from the same geographic location, same or similar socioeconomic group--not very representative of who you'll encounter in the "real world" at all!). Homeschooled children learn about society and social issues not from a book or teacher (who is supposed to be an "expert), but from actually PARTICIPATING in the real world with their parents, who are much better able to guide them in decision making on a daily basis. My daughter goes everywhere with me--the post office, grocery store, restaurants--EVERYTHING can be made into a learning experience. And EXPERIENCE is infinitely better than reading about the postal system, etc. in a boring textbook!!! Again, I know this is off the topic, but I felt the need to respond to this because I have heard it frequently, and encountered it once again here in this topic's postings.
Vanessa
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 15:30:53 (EST)
Its Ok Alan...unfortunately your probably right in that the girl doesn't get enough attention at home...I think I would notice if my daughter went to school with rubbers taped to her shirt! LOL.. DUH!
LH
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 14:26:34 (EST)
Sorry if you misunderstood the phrase "lighten up" as meaning "it's okay to break the rules", that was not the intention(that was why I said "lighten up", and did not say "it's okay to break the rules"). If the school rules prohibited this action and even the first offense is grounds for suspension the girl should know that it would happen. We obviously don't know the whole story. It did just occur to me that the punishment might work in this case. The attention this girl got was short-lived, now she must be at home for a few days where she must not get enough.
Alan
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 13:13:23 (EST)
OPPs..hit the POST button before I was done!

I think we have learned a great lesson from "lightening up" in past years...maybe that is why things are the way they are now! Children go to school to LEARN...not to make political statements...and if they feel the need to do so and break the rules, then they must also LEARN there are consequences and quit whinning! Its actually so simple, its crazy that anyone would debate the fact that when these kids get out into society and break the rules..they end up in jail...and you won't get far telling the judge to "lighten up"!!!
LH
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 11:40:55 (EST)
OK...here is the "low down" from my 16 year old daughter, she says "the school acted appropriately because you are not suppoz to wear anything to school that distracts from the learning environment or might be distasteful to others"!

While I respect the point everyone here is trying to make and even agree with some...I don't think you are getting the whole "jist" of the question which is taking RESPONSIBILITY FOR BREAKING A RULE! Whether that rule is FAIR or NOT is a whole new question!!!!
LH
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 11:34:04 (EST)
Thank you for that post Kimberly, I think we do need to "lighten up". Does anyone actually think that our girl in question was trying to enlighten her peers to the importance of "safe sex"? Could it be that both the girl and her parents believe strongly that this message needs to be heard, at any cost to their daughter, even if she faces school suspension? I think the idea was probably getting attention in school with a sexual twist. If her parents allowed her costume of choice they should have checked with the school to see if it was okay, if her parents did not allow her costume why was she wearing it? The school seems to have reacted a bit strongly, maybe there was more involved than just wearing the condoms. Why didn't they have her go home and change? I think by making it a big issue they come off worse. When I was in school it would be kind of "scary" when things were dealt with quietly and just "went away". This girl hit the attention getting jackpot. Our daughter is 14 and we have been noticing a marked difference in some of her friends. My wife has always had the idea that the reason some teenage girls become active sexually (or foster the reputation that they are) is as compensation,or even rebellion against not ever being allowed to discuss the topic or learn how to deal with their sexuality. I'm sure it is mostly an education issue, but it is a topic that involves core personality traits and must be taught and guided by parents, not schools.
Alan
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 10:51:04 (EST)
I am originally from USA, but am now living in Europe. I have come to realize some things in these 2 years, and one of them is how laid back and relaxed Europe is compared to America. Dont get me wrong, I love America and always will, but we need to lighted up over there. There is so much censorship!!!! They teach kids over here about safe sex and they see naked bums and even breasts on TV from day one, and it is no big deal here. They also dont have the high rate of teen pregnancies and diseases as they do in America, and why is that? Probably because kids want what they are told is bad or something they cant have until they are older. I believe they acted a little harshly over a little tshirt. I give her kudos. She could wore a shirt with some other more obscene thing on it. Her head is in the right place. Good for her for trying to get her message across.!!!!!!!!!!
Kimberly
email: jakoblauridsen@hotmail.com
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 04:01:32 (EST)
Mary...what if the punishment for disobeying the dress code was suspension?
LH
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 03:59:47 (EST)
sorry...this thing cut out part of my post... at the end it was suppose to say that when my children meet "how was it in another post.... normal people" they will know how to deal with and make their own choices.

also I had put after I said I homeschool that it was each to his own... I dont put anyone down for sending their childrewn to public or private school so why do people put us down when we say we homeschool
Mary
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 02:06:47 (EST)
First , I don't think suspension was the correct way of dealing with it.If the school has a dress code and this "outfit" violated it, they should have use the "punishment" for that violation not suspention.

Vanessa, I agree with you, I now homeschool my children too
As far as "Getting a grip" because I homeschool... I DID!! I, like most homeschoolers do not do it to "shield" or hide our kids from the "general public". We do it so that WE can be the ones to teach our children these types of things, to teach them our morals and values. I am not saying you can't do that when you send them to public school because I did send mine for several years. But I feel that I can do a better job at home. We don't hide at home either. My kids see plenty "out in the REAL world" and if I can help them now to make the right choices, then when they meet the they will know how to deal with and make the right choices for themselves.

Mary
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 02:00:27 (EST)
Miriam...I agree we need to educate and guide our children, but we also have to teach them responsibility! And if this school had a dress code which didn't allow t-shirts with offending statements to be worn to school, then the girl broke a rule and had to take responsibility for it...its just as simple as that!!! All I keep hearing is how we need to educate our children about safe sex, which I'm all for...but this is really a TRICK question...its not about getting the message of safe sex out to our youth...its about breaking rules and paying the consequences for it!!!

Cherokee...from your post, it sounds like you might have the same kind of relationship with your daughter as I have with mine...we talk very openly (I mean very very openly!)and very often!! While I don't always support every decission she makes...she is becoming a young woman and has to learn that unfortunately, bad decissions usually have bad consequences...all I can do is make sure she is educated and knows that I am very approachable if she needs someone to talk with! I really feel sorry for the parents who's kids do not have such an open relationship with them and who think their kids are "little angels"...boy, are they sure getting the wool pulled over their eyes! Because my daughter not only tells me what she is doing, but what the other kids are doing as well!! :-0

Cameragirl...HI! Haven't ssen you post for awhile! It was me that mentioned how I sometimes wish I had sent my daughter to private school when she got out of elementary...I do worry that seeing all this ugliness everyday single day has a negitive effect on her personality, but at the same time I know she will probably benefit and be stronger because of it! Mostly my comments are due to some situations that have been happening at her school just recently that have really had us upset! I won't go into the whole story...a few examples are several teachers loosing her homework (we know she did it and turned it in) then expecting her to redo it before they would take the responsibility for loosing it themselves...the teachers only seem to notice the kids who aren't doing well and don't praise the ones who are enough...her guidence counselor doesn't want to make the time with her or us to discuss college prep...athletic program is corrupt and political...and I could go on and on!!! But seriously...my choice to send her to private school would be geared more towards the acedemics than keeping her away from all the "ugliness" which she seems to be coping with pretty well! TC!!
LH
Sunday, November 09, 2003 at 00:50:39 (EST)
Let's see...I don't believe the girl should have been suspended. Was she looking for attention? Maybe. Was she making a statement? Maybe. I believe that the school overreacted and took the easy way out (pretty typical these days). It's easier to suspend than to find out what she was thinking,why she chose to dress in this particular costume and try to help her. She may have just simply needed a lesson in taste & tactfullness. This girl needed guidance not suspension. We need to educate and guide our children. We need to make sure they understand what is being taught. Kids have a way of "understanding" when in reality they are interpreting (sometimes to suit their needs). EXAMPLE (I was blown away when I was made aware that kids acually think this): Kids understand the message of "virginity" and "saving yourself". But they INTERPRET that to mean - - If they are not having conventional sex then they will still be a vigin when they get married. So, in their mind, oral & anal sex are OK. They stay a vigin, don't get pregnant and they wont get any STD's.
This is why more time should have been taken with that young lady. How is she interpreting all the messages she is receiving? And how does SHE interpret what she has done?
Miriam
Saturday, November 08, 2003 at 23:43:36 (EST)
hi all, long time!
Well, to start off, I definitely think the school was drastic in their discipline method. If the girl was not hurting anyone who cares?
To those who said this is the reason why they will not send their children to public school, please get a grip. It all depends on the area in which you live. I grew up in a middle-upper class area that had top ranked public schools and high ACT scores to prove it. The private Catholic high school however was trying to rid themselves of the drug "reputation" they earned themselves when 5 students were caught smoking pot with a teacher and then informed the police that they got the drugs from the teacher! So much for "private being better"!
Unless you home school your children and shield them from the world forever they are going to come into contact with sex, drugs, and rock and roll at some point in their lives. And if they don't have the values and morals from you, they will sway the wrong way. Teach your children right from wrong. Be there and know their friends and activities and have honest open communication with them and they should hopefully make you proud.
cameragirl
Saturday, November 08, 2003 at 22:40:33 (EST)
I think that the school was correct, not because schools should avoid the topic of sex but because an attention getting costume is not helping the students learn anything. To me, schools also have a charactor building role and a responsibility to help students handle big issues with tact and as much grace as teenagers can muster.
another opinion
Saturday, November 08, 2003 at 22:38:15 (EST)
No to the suspension. Why not just ask her to take the condoms off the shirt? I can't see what about the incident merits a suspension.
sharon d
email: sharon@croptart.com
Saturday, November 08, 2003 at 22:32:00 (EST)
Come on, people. I am surprised at how many people either forgot what it was like when they were teens or are too old to know what it is like now. Kids are having sex when they are in middle school...yes, middle school, and they are highly interested in it in elementary school. I highly doubt the girl was looking for sexual attention, if she was trying to make a statement. I certainly think suspension is drastic. Why don't they just ask her to change like every other school in the nation.

As far as the first comment from LH, I would like to say, "Kudos for keeping your child in the public school." I personally would love to put my kids in a private school, but when you think about it...the same kids in the public school system are the future people in the workforce. Sheltering your child from normal people is not a good idea.
Michelle
Saturday, November 08, 2003 at 22:21:35 (EST)
I understand everyone's reasoning that we need to "wake up" and be aware of what is going on in our kids lives. I don't, however, think it is necessary to pan off this child's (yes child)behavior as expressing herself and drawing attention to an important platform. I think she probably wanted to get the guys' attention (sure she did)and make **herself** the focal point, not the **issue**. As adults, isn't it our job to teach our children that if: hey, you want someone to take you seriously...then use a behavior that is credible and respect worthy. This issue was never about the need to be aware of safe sex. The kids know what this is. I think the kid simply used the safe sex platform to act sexual in a passive-aggressive way.

I was also interested in another parent's comment about her daughter on the phone. "girls kissing girls in the hallway"....I know what you mean. My oldest daughter is 20 and it is quite the fad now.."temporary Bi-sexuality"...it really makes the guys take notice. Another ploy for sexual attention...girls believe that it is every guys' fantasy right? My daughter shared with me that one of her 'friends' approached her on the subject for a party they were going to. Something like "wanna be bi for a nite". She was disgusted as was I. She didn't go because she was uncomfortable. I thanked God that all that hard work raising her had paid off. Don't these kids know that they're behavior almost always has consequences later...throwing yourself around like that to whatever sex will have you for attention...what if you want to run for public office someday (LOL!! ok probably a bad example..that doesn't seem to matter these days). Oh..and just so I don't tick off any liberals on the board...I don't have a problem with homosexuality...I just have a problem with those members of that group (not all)trying to indoctrinate young people into a lifestyle that will be very difficult. Anyway, getting offtrack here. My point is (which took some time to arrive at)...is thank goodness the communication between my daughter and I is open enough that she shared that, we talked about it, what consequences are from even temporary behavior etc...maybe that little gal should have had just a session with the school counselor (her parents weren't too interested, obviously)and changed her clothes, then gone back to her day at school.
Cherokee
Saturday, November 08, 2003 at 15:45:15 (EST)
Wake up people. We were all teens at one time and times have changed. We cant keep hiding things from our teens. All we can do is teach them to be careful and safe. Its not like she was an elementary student. This is real life.


What did suspending her teach anyone? Be ashamed and hide from the reality of the modern world?
leslie
email: lesliewest1971@yahoo.ca
Saturday, November 08, 2003 at 14:43:34 (EST)
I FEEL THE SCHOOL ACTIONS WERE APPROPIATE CONDOMS ALL OVER THE T-SHIRT WAS VERY INAPPROPIATE SOME THINGS EVEN AS A TEENAGER IS COMMON SENSE WHICH WAS NOT USED IN THIS MATTER
roslyn whittington
email: ajdros70@yahoo.com
Saturday, November 08, 2003 at 13:45:18 (EST)
Vanessa...I respect your opinion and really give you credit for sticking to your guns on how your daughter should be raised...after all it is quite "ugly" sometimes at public schools! During a conversation with my daughter I discovered that she deals with alot of things on a daily basis that I feel could really do damage to a young soul..."kids getting slammed up against lockers, gils kissing other girls in the hall, a boy stomping out a joint as he leaves the bathroom, and a teacher asking a student if he wants to go have a smoke together out in the parking lot" AND THIS IS JUST A SMALL RURAL HIGH SCHOOL IN A SMALL CITY IN OHIO for goodness sakes!!!Sometimes I wonder if maybe I made a mistake somewhere...if maybe I should have sent my daughter to a private school long ago when I first started seeing signs of what was to come! Now don't get me wrong...she is coping quite well with all this, and maybe, if we keep informed and involved like we want, will come out a very strong young woman as she heads off to college then out into the workforce! I have seriously thought about pulling her out and sending her to a private school, but she only has 2 1/2 yrs left before graduation and I really feel it might do more damage than help concerning her honors classes! It really is keeping us "on our toes" around here though!!!
LH
Saturday, November 08, 2003 at 12:31:55 (EST)
This is yet another example of why I will not send my child to any school--public or private. I will be happy to teach my child about sex within the framework of what we believe--that physical intimacy is a gift that a husband/wife share with each other, not something rebellious "experimenting" teenagers pass out like candy. While I do agree that this child was probably made an example of, and that she should have been subject to the school's regular discipline for dressing inappropriately, I have to say that it pains me to know that a generation of people are learning about sex from MTV, the WB, their immature and uneducated peers, and "harmless" experimentation. My husband and I are teaching our daughter at home because we believe we can do a MUCH better job than any school, and because we do not want our daughter to be influenced by people who do not share our values at what is a critical time in her emotional development. We are teaching her at home because we BELIEVE the book of Proverbs, which says that if we train up our child in the way she should go, that when she is older SHE WILL NOT depart from it. In other words, we don't have to simply take it for granted that "they're gonna do it anyway." I do believe that kids are smart enough to do the right thing if their parents train them in the way they should go. The trouble is...there are so few parents training--it's left up to the schools, and peer groups. Frightening.
Vanessa
Saturday, November 08, 2003 at 09:42:07 (EST)
I understand the school's stanpoint of not wanting kids to advertise sex, but whether parents and school administrators like it or not, many kids are going to be sexually active. If a child is going to be sexually active it is important that they understand how to prevent pregnancy and STDs.
Mary Beth Isaac
email: marybeth_isaac@hotmail.com
Saturday, November 08, 2003 at 09:34:55 (EST)
Was she depicting "safe sex" or advertising? Whether or not that young lady realizes it, her actions may send a completely different message. Before wearing a condom on your shirt, try volunteering. Then I'll know you are serious in your efforts to "educate" others and not just looking for attention. The flip side of this debate is that schools have dress codes but are lax in enforcing them. So they appear "ineffective and jokish" when they try to enforce it on a holiday known for dressing up. This situation may have been avoided, if the dress code was in effect and PRACTICED from September thru June with students (and parents) knowing in advance the consequences.

P.S. Did her parents know that she wearing a condom on her shirt?
AM
Saturday, November 08, 2003 at 08:21:55 (EST)
I believe that the school should have just sent her home to change clothes, at the most. It's about time someone stands up about whats going on in this world when it comes to teen pregnancies/STD's.
MJ
email: shmelkum@hotmail.com
Saturday, November 08, 2003 at 04:02:19 (EST)
Thats f@#king nothing my son wore a t,shrit with used comdoms on it f@#k sakes no f@$ker would go within 10 feet of the smelly c@#t so shut the f@#k up assholes.


PS.keep up the good work,dorks.

cheers.
adrianclince
email: ADRIANCLINCE@MSN.COM
Saturday, November 08, 2003 at 00:29:22 (EST)
Goodwin-Loyola University Chicago did the same exact thing in the center field of campus my freshman year! How funny, I forgot about that until you mentioned your school! How funny!
Kerri
Saturday, November 08, 2003 at 00:16:09 (EST)
Everybody is trying to teach teens about the use of condoms for having safe sex but then get all upset when they actually say the same message. That is ridiculous to suspend her. O.K., it might be inappropriate for school but they should have asked her to change or if she didn't have any other clothes they could make her where some school issued gym clothes around all day like they did in my H.S. haha
Jodi
email: alan_n_jodi@hotmail.com
Friday, November 07, 2003 at 23:28:16 (EST)
Hey JMO...Did ya get my email? SMILE!!! TGIF!!!
LH
Friday, November 07, 2003 at 22:26:29 (EST)
LOLOL Goodwin...the daughter and her friends made one of those "snow weewees" (LOL!) in MY FRONT YARD last winter...I was sooo embarrassed!
LH
Friday, November 07, 2003 at 14:34:23 (EST)
Whew...its been a while since I've posted here. Hello to all.

Well, I certainly think that although distasteful, her actions certainly did not require suspension. High school is the last step before becoming and adult, and we should be treating kids more like adults than children. I'm sure that if the school board (or whomever was in charge) simply sat down with this young lady and explained why it was not appropriate, then they would get a lot more out of creating this hoopla. I think the message of safe sex is VERY important in high school aged people, and if anything, this young girl made a statement that maybe her classmates will learn from.

Fresman year in college, University of Utah: we made a huge snow penis and dyed it red. Never got in trouble, and the guys had the best time breaking it down. Ahhh...those are the days!
A Goodwin
Friday, November 07, 2003 at 13:25:44 (EST)
Having trouble sleeping again tonite so I thought I'd play around on here for abit till I get sleepy...I hope!

I think the actions taken against this girl were fine if she was breaking a school rule or dress code! I liked KERRI'S idea of dressing as an STD...cute idea! Forgot who posted it, but NO they don't have condom machines in the school bathrooms...at least not here! That would be ridiculous!! In our case, we are lucky to even get a tampon machine!!! As for teaching our children about safe sex...it is a must in this day and age! Now that doesn't mean you have to promote it, but it is better to be safe than sorry...and there are several sorry girls at my daughters school so far this year!

OK...gonna browse abit and try to get my eyelids to close and stay that way! Thats what I get for "napping" the night away on the couch!Arggg! TC!
LH
Friday, November 07, 2003 at 03:52:14 (EST)
The Bible says to "flee fornication..Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body".
Perhaps this young lady should have dressed as a virgin...Now, there's a novel idea;)
Rebecca
Thursday, November 06, 2003 at 23:52:35 (EST)
Did the school act appropriately? Looks to me like they are playing C.Y.A.(cover your a$$). It seems somewhat overboard for this type of offense. I mean it's not like she got caught making whoopie with her boyfriend in the janitor's broom closet. When I was in tech school some years ago, there was one guy who was wearing a t-shirt that had a word that rhymes with "duck" written on it at least twice. I forget what the shirt's point was but the offending party was simply told to remove it and put on something else, or go home and don't come back. Nice and simple, but they gave him a choice while delivering the message that it was inappropriate. It worked.
As for this poor girl, her move was rather silly to say the least. I hope for her sake that besides suspension they also call her parents in and at least TRY to sort out what the real problem might be. As others here have pointed out, stunts like this are usually a call for attention. Hopefully she has two quasi-dependable parents in her life.
Philbert
Thursday, November 06, 2003 at 22:41:47 (EST)