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Welcome to the Sound Off Discussion Board, where parents from all walks of life and all parts of the world come together in one place to share their opinions and thoughts about the question of the week. Please remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion and the freedom to express it. Obscene posts are unwelcome and shall be removed from the board. Please keep in mind that this is a public board. Never post personal information that you would be uncomfortable sharing with others. Comments about this board should be sent to iParenting's Webmaster. Thank you for contributing! If you have a suggestion for the question of the week, send it to feedback@iparenting.com.

Many people, including stars like Carnie Wilson, have turned to gastric bypass surgery as a way to lose weight. Is this a medical necessity for some, or just an easy way out?

For archived topics, click here.

PHILBERT-Amen, Brother!
SH
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 at 23:47:16 (EST)
Cherokee..uh-oh, looks like you've got a FAN! LOL!!

Here's a good one guys!
"What does Michael Jackson and Walmart have in common?"
answer: "Little boys jeans, half off"!

OK..how bout'this one:
"How do you tell when Michael Jackson has compnay"?
answer: "There's a Big Wheel parked in his driveway"!

LH
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 at 22:41:21 (EST)
CHEROKEE- you ROCK!
oscar
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 at 15:26:22 (EST)
Oscar, Oscar, Oscar, nope, apparently you *didn't* get the point. Must we use A** and B&!@#!$ in this forum? Glad your wife looks great - as long as we are horn-tooting here...even with my extra 10 I rock! I'm Cherokee and exotic looking...blah blah blah, and I've got muscles that don't quit. Nobody believes I've had 5 kids...I'm 39.5 yrs and I look 30. Women hate me (especially because I worked in male dominated field and even then the women tend to be a little - ahem, masculine. See how that sounds? Again the "in your face - my wife had a baby and she looks super taunts are hurtful. Maybe you should move to yahoo chats or something.

I breastfed, (FIVE children) and just because I have 10lbs to lose doesn't mean I'm not healthy..as your comments insinuate. My youngest is 9 months and he is still nursed. In fact, considering I've survived cancer (twice) and I went on to have children and save additonal lives in my line of work,(EMT/Firefighter) I bet even with my extra 10 I could pull a guy like you 6'2" 190# out of a burning building today - I consider myself *decidedly* healthy. I go to the gym, it's just harder to work it off after 5 babies, and because I'm a dediated mom, homework with kids, soccer, ballet etc. usually needs to come before me to the gym. And, I intend to live a long happy life with my children and wow! you and your wife sure put a lot of emphasis on aesthetics sounds like. And..Oprah STILL struggles with her weight.

Hey! Wasn't I the one who said we shouldn't be baited into arguements with you...right. Well you hit a nerve for us recovering new moms out there - I feel pretty good about my looks but it's unfair to people who need encouragement...hope you're never "in need" one day...kharma is funny like that - You're mean. Never mind - you don't "get it".
Cherokee
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 at 14:25:41 (EST)
point taken Cherokee...
I work out regularly and can honestly say I see many over weight people busting their asses to lose weight. Even those "morbidly Obese" people are walking on a treadmill or swimming laps. They know that without exercise weight loss is nearly impossible. You have to take in less calories (food) and burn off calories (exercise) to come out negative in the days total for caloric intake. Ask any dietician.
Take my wife for example. She is beautiful and also had a few pounds to lose after our child was born (who doesn't?), but she accomplished it easily with breast feeding and exercise. She knows that it takes work to keep your body in shape and wants to stay healthy so she can live a long life with our children. That is why she too works out 3-4 times a week. Not only does she look fabulous, she is healthy! What more can a man ask for? Every man who sees her is jealous. I can say this because I see the stares when she walks into a room. I get the "you lucky bastard" from my friends (yes I actually have friends, MICHELLE). Sorry to all those of you who disagree with my opinion. I would never undergo drastic changes to my anatomy for LIFE to lose weight. I would just use self control in the first place and not allow myself to get to that point of "morbidly" obese.

Anything can happen when you put your mind to it. Didn't Oprah do it with diet AND exercise? She even ran a marathon!
oscar
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 at 13:48:59 (EST)
Cherokee ~ I am preparing to enter a teaching program and some of the things I have to take in my pre-req classes have us making lesson plans for appropriate ages, etc. I found several websites with ideas for age-appropriate lesson plans, and one of the best ones is busyteachers.com. It has different ideas for different types of learners. My sister also homeschools her 2 boys and I told her about it as well.
Best of luck!
Margarita
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 at 13:46:30 (EST)
Oscar - it's fine to give your "honest opinion"...but why say it in such a way that makes people feel like they are being mocked, misunderstood and attacked. I'm only about 10lbs overweight myself - post-baby weight mostly...those last ten have been a you-know-what to lose, as I have indicated in my previous post. I can only imagine how someone who is really overweight must feel when they read your comments. I'm not saying have a pity-party, just show some respect for a fellow human.

I'm sure you are a man who is able to illustrate his opinion in such a way that doesn't immediately lose the good will of those who are 'listening'.
Cherokee
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 at 13:29:54 (EST)
MICHELLE-In your dreams maybe you know me! At least I don't come on a board and LIE to people I don't know, I just give my honest opinion! FYI...I am 6'2" and weigh 190...not too overweight from what I am told by my personal trainer.
oscar
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 at 13:14:07 (EST)
Thanks Lyne!
AV
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 at 11:48:50 (EST)
I dont know much about this subject at all. I believe I read where someone said they could stand to lose 10 lbs or so. That i sme as well. And it seems so trivial compared to what morbidly obese people go through. How awful and isolated they must feel.
AV you look fantastic! Keep up the great work. And your son is very handsome too!
Lyne
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 at 11:38:44 (EST)
Vanessa - are you out there?

Hey! I just wanted to tell you we started homeschooling our six year old this week and it is going great!! I appreciated all your insights and encouragement on the subject!
Cherokee
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 at 10:01:41 (EST)


Michelle...WHAT??!! (?!) Wow! Oscar is overweight, yet he is the one telling everyone to stop putting the fork in the mouth..less food = less weight gain? LOL! Like we didn't know that. That is too bad. That is also why we ignore. LH is right - maybe if someone extended some friendship (even if he doesn't seem deserving) he might soften a bit.

Lateecha...WOW switch to decaf girlfriend, we do get a little passionate on this site about some subjects, but geez, not enough to flip and go postal. Take it easy.
Cherokee
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 at 09:59:26 (EST)
Hey!! Was wondering where you were.... thought you were going to bed early??? You will see over on the board that we were talking about you the fact that you were probably in bed sleeping!!! Sent you a few PM's too....
Avogadro
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 at 01:16:13 (EST)
LOL, HI AV!!! C you in abit on the forums!
LH
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 at 01:13:37 (EST)
michelle...if that is true, then I feel very sorry for oscar! Maybe some of the girls in the office could try to be abit more understanding despite his mean spirit and in turn maybe he will learn to be a nicer person?!

Lateecha...I don't usually respond to such nonsense, but JEEZ, what all the anger?
LH
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 at 01:12:52 (EST)
Hey!! Watch the language.... this is a family forum!!
avogadro
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 at 01:08:13 (EST)
yall are bullshiters! this is a bunch of bull n yall bitches are gullable enuff to believe it ! damnit to hell!
Lateecha chilliano
email: hastalavista@hotmail.com
Tuesday, November 18, 2003 at 22:44:56 (EST)
guess what you guys i know oscar he told me that he comes on this site at work and i decided to see what he was talking about and i read his comments you guys ignore him because he is overweight to and very ugly none of the girls like him they always talking about him he does this to everyone because he gets called names in his own life so he takes it out on people who cant really see how he really looks
michelle
Tuesday, November 18, 2003 at 21:12:03 (EST)
....oh I wish I were an OSCAR Mayer wiener....
then again maybe not. Must be nice to live in a world where everything has just one definitive, inarguable solution, and to always know you're right.

SH--I've always said to my wife that I'd rather she was 10 lbs overweight than 10 lbs underweight.
Philbert
Tuesday, November 18, 2003 at 20:32:29 (EST)
Curious,

No, that was not us....

You can look at this website for my before and after pictures....

http://www.geocities.com/avogadro1971/

I have one 7 year old child. he thinks it is great. He was 4 when I had the surgery and hwe just knew mommy was in the hospital. I don't think he really remembers me being that big but he knows it is me if he he sees old pictures. He always told me that he just wanted me to small enough to get into the McDonalds PlayLand with him - which I have done several times now!

AV


avogadro
Tuesday, November 18, 2003 at 12:20:55 (EST)
AV-I saw a special on TV a year or so ago about a mother-daughter team who both got the gastric bypass operation. Was that by chance you?
And also, how many children do you have? And what do they think of it?
curious
Tuesday, November 18, 2003 at 09:14:33 (EST)
PBJ: The surgery seriously limits food intake. I did not eat any solid food for 8 weeks. Then, only 2 tablespoons at a time, about 6 times per day.

Yes, if someone just drank water, had no solid food for 8 weeks and then ate only 12 tablespoons of food a day for 9 months... they would lose weight too! But, try to do that on your own!!

The surgery also shortens the intestinal system. So, mal-absorption is another part of the surgery and why people can lose such drastic amounts of weight.

That is also a big reason why we do not gain it back. I can eat pretty normally now but I do not ever gain weight. I do not absorb all the fat and calories like I used to.

Cherokee and LH: Thank you very much for the wonderful comments!

As far as why people becomemorbidly obese? Gee, who knows? I didn't wake up one day and say "I think I'll try to make it to 400 pounds this year!!". Genetics play a part - my whole family is overweight - except my mom who had the surgery about a year after me! Lifestyle play a part. Bad habits. No exercise. eating in front of the TV. Low self-esteem. Eating for comfort. Pyschological eating. Depression. I could go on and on... I don't think you will ever find one thing that causes a person to get to the morbidly obese point.

AV

Avogadro
Monday, November 17, 2003 at 19:20:16 (EST)
You are right LH - the body gets used to having a certain amount of food to feel full.

On a sidenote, it is obvious your friend is lovely inside and out - I'm sorry to hear things have been hard for her - it's obvious that she is a winner for overcoming them.

Viewer - thanks. Maybe I will try some of the weight watcher foods - although I eat really decent. I think my body's metabolism is slowing a bit. Also, I am on thyroid medication (I lost my thyroid to cancer 12 years ago)so that may need adjustment post-baby. Mostly I think my body is so used to so much more physical activity. I'm gonna ask my husband if he can accomodate my hitting the gym one more night per week. He is a GEM like that.

Cherokee
Monday, November 17, 2003 at 14:52:59 (EST)
Of course my earlier comment wasn't addressed to morbidly obese people, I mean, many of them do have medical reasons for being the size they are and can't help it. I was referring to those people who CAN lose weight by exercising and eating right but CHOOSE to have G.B. Surgery instead because it's quicker. I think that's what the question was referring to. Look at the Subway guy. He was really big and he lost weight without the surgery, it can be done for some of these people. BUT, it is their money and their bodies, and if they'd rather go through the surgery then that's up to them. I know I'd rather get on a treadmill than be sliced open and stapled!
PHILBERT-If only more men would see that healthy rather than thin is beautiful :o)
SH
Monday, November 17, 2003 at 13:14:30 (EST)
PJB...I know your not trying to be a "smarty-pants"...you have a legit question and ask in a polite way! Oh believe me...I know a "smarty-pants" (I could think of better terms!) when I see one!

I would assume that people who are grossly overweight also have pyscological(sp?) reasons for becoming that way or another possibility might be that their stomaches are larger and need more food to feel "full" which after the surgery their stomaches are smaller and require alot less! Just "grasping at straws" here as I really am not that educated on the subject! Hopefully AV will be along later to shed some light on your question!

Cherokee...I am sure AV will be pleased at all the positive input!!! If I may say a few things about my friend...she is just as beautiful a person on the inside as the one you see in the website pics! She is a kind, caring woman who has been through alot in her lifetime...and through it all has had the time to help others, be a friend, and a great mom! Some people would become angry at the world for having gone through some of the things she has been through...but not AV...and this is why if anyone deserves abit of happiness, I feel it is her and if this surgery helped, then good for her!! TC all!
PS...Yea, I know I said I'd lay the "yopic" (LOL!) to rest...now I really must!
LH
Monday, November 17, 2003 at 12:36:36 (EST)
Hey all, try Weight watchers if you are having trouble losing those "last few" pounds. It helped me lose 13 lbs in 8 weeks! Now I am back to prebaby, pre-wedding weight again! :)
Viewer
Monday, November 17, 2003 at 12:30:40 (EST)
AVOGADRO - I just saw your website..WOW! Even in your "before" pictures you had a beautiful smile and your inner beauty was very evident. You are a stunning woman!! AND you look very healthy..Outstanding Job!!
Cherokee
Monday, November 17, 2003 at 12:01:55 (EST)
Good Morning All...Happy Monday {;)}

I'm all for intelligent conversation. I even like a good arguement once in a while (just ask my husband!)LOL! However, this Oscar character is clearly just trying to "get everyone's goat" with his less then intelligent, back-ass-wards, redneck way of discussing what is clearly a sensitive topic. How about we just make a collective decision to IGNORE his posts until he decides to grow up and take part in a discussion like an adult? So Oscar - be nice or beat it - there are ways to debate without getting personal and being insulting.

Having said that, regarding this topic: from a medical standpoint, I'm with Kerri. I am in the medical field and have worked in both ER and ICU fields. She is 100% correct when she cites post-surgical incidents. I too have seen some pretty scary outcomes, but on the other hand, it is because of the post-surgery management by the patient, or lack of a support system or assistance, once they have gone home. Any informed obese person having this surgery should not consider this a quick fix, there is less post-procedure care for angioplasty then gastric bypass!! but I think the medical community is pretty good about relaying that to the patient and their families.

While it is true that less food = less weight gain in most cases, there are alot of other factors that cause obesity. Also, if you are trying to starve yourself, your body does turn alot of what you eat to fat, it is a double-edged sword. Metabolism, renal problems and MENTAL & EMOTIONAL issues are all contributing factors to obesity. How about giving heavy people a break. By saying that I mean, let's not assume that ALL heavy people are heavy because they visit McDonalds everyday. If they could do it over, they probably would.

You know, I am the mother of five kids, I have always lost all of my "baby" weight within 8-10weeks post partum but with this last baby, for some reason, I hung onto this extra 10 lbs., my hubby says I look great, most people say so also, but for me it is diffult because I'm use to having a very athletic build. When I worked in the field, there were strict guidelines for physical condition. I'm almost 40, very busy with various kids' activities - I am *soccer mom*. Though I walk the baby in his stroller every night, I only have time for a major gym workout 3 times per week. I'm self conscious about a lousy 10 lbs. I cannot even imagine how hard it must be for people who are 80-100lbs or even more overweight. It must be so hard. While they did get themselves there with poor eating habits, etc, why is it so difficult for people not to be judgemental that the obese finally have a way to deal with it. As a society it is widely accepted that men and women have face lifts, nose jobs, liposuction and the oh-so-wonderful fake boobies. This is no different.

The people who CHOOSE to be (for lack of a better word) *fat* are a VERY small percentage (i.e., those that "don't care about themselves so why should anyone else". ) and even then it is usually mentally or emotionally rooted. Those people need counselling - once they regain their emotional footing they have the motivation, consistency and will power to eat less and exercise more. I've seen it. However, because of the medical risks obesity imposes, while a person takes 2 years to repair their mental/emotional crisis, their clocks are literally ticking away. Gastric bypass (in severe instances) I think is a good idea because some people don't have the luxury of doing it all by themselves.

If we are to adopt Oscar's way of thinking...then we should also not allow alcoholics to go through detox programs that cost almost or just as much as the surgery. (Alot of times on our tax dollars). they certainly made the decision to be there...usually because of similar mental or emotional issues. They just chose to loose it in a bottle, pipe, or needle. Same goes for the heroin addicts and tweekers (who do ya think pays for those folks anyway - coming from the medical field - I have to tell ya - most of time it isn't insurance). AND...howcome when celebrities and people we know come forward and share their "addictions" with us and how they "beat it" through 28 days of introspection we high-five them and commend them on their strength to treat their problem, but when heavy people want to have this surgery and re-train themselves in their lifestyle, we scoff at them and just tell them crassly: "just stop eating you cow". What a hypocritical double standard that is.

I don't think it is such a big deal for people to have this surgery. I think if you only have 40-50 lbs to lose, most legitimate doctors would say you are not a candidate for gastric bypass. And to the lady on this board with the website - haven't seen the pictures but I plan to visit the site today - KUDOS in advance. Congratulations!
Cherokee
Monday, November 17, 2003 at 11:36:13 (EST)
PJB, People who have had this surgery eat less, and of those foods they do eat, less is absorbed into their system because they have had a section at the beginning of the intestinal tract removed. Most also find that they are unable to eat sugars and fats without almost immediate physical consequences, thus forcing a lifestyle change. These are the three main reasons why the surgery causes rapid weight loss. A point to consider, however, is that on average, patients who have undergone this procedure will lose only 70% to 80% of their excess weight. If you are a person who is 400 pounds and you undergo the procedure, you will still have to work off approximately 50+ pounds to reach a "standard" weight. Any one who risks this procedure to eliminate health problems, deals with the surgery itself, successfully alters their lifestyle to stay healthy after surgery, and then puts in the effort to lose the weight the surgery did not affect has my admiration and respect. Fat is not always a choice, nor is ignorance. My husband is now healthy, but it looks like oscar will always be ignorant.
happy wife
Monday, November 17, 2003 at 11:22:59 (EST)
Lift your hands LESS to your mouth = LESS food entering your stomach = weight loss.
I don't even have a degree in science and I know this much.
Why pay thousands of dollars to have someone surgically change your anatomy??
Handcuff yourself for godsake if you have so little control with the spoon and fork!
oscar
Monday, November 17, 2003 at 10:28:44 (EST)
Ok, no one has answered my question from earlier. Now it seems that Oscar understands what I meant, but it is still a point that needs to be addressed. Why is it that when a person is forced to consume less food via the bypass surgery then all of a sudden the weight comes off? it seems the same effect could be achieved if the person voluntarily consumed less. The proof is right there. Now before you all jump over me too, i am genuinly asking this, not being a smarty pants.


PJB
Monday, November 17, 2003 at 10:12:37 (EST)
"yopic"...LOL! ~:-)
Good post AV!!
LH
Monday, November 17, 2003 at 06:58:30 (EST)
Oscar.... you amaze me more and more with the extent of your stupidity and ignorance. Good Lord... if you are a man, I certainly hope you are not married and if so, I will say a prayer for your wife!!!

Have you looked at my website? Guess what, I may have "let myself" get that overweight but I was able to lose weight and look good. I can say with 200% certainty that I am 500 times better looking than you!! You are probably a VERY physically unattractive person (you have shown how unattractive you are just as a person!) - you have to say these horrible, mean things to make yourself feel better!!

I was always an attractive person on the inside and now I am attractive on the outside as well. You will always be UGLY on the inside (and probably on the outside as well). I wish they had a surgery to fix people like you!!

AV
Avogadro
Monday, November 17, 2003 at 04:00:15 (EST)
And yet another stupid reply from our "ol' buddy" oscar...let me point out a couple facts to you and then I must lay this yopic to rest as your replies are getting stupider by the hour!
*Some people don't "LET" themselves get this way...they are born this way and may have inherited it genitically from one or both of their parents!
*Most people who have this surgery DO CARE ABOUT THEMSELVES! Most have tried so many diets and exercise programs that this is their last hope!

Now please oscar...crawl back under your rock and be a good boy! :-0
LH
Monday, November 17, 2003 at 01:00:43 (EST)
How anyone could even allow themselves get to that point of obesity is disgusting. SORRY people, it's true. If you don't care enough about yourself, who else will?
oscar
Monday, November 17, 2003 at 00:42:51 (EST)
I am more than happy to post the website with the pictures. I am proud of what I have accomplished. It was not easy, it was a lot of work and it saved mylife. It is not for someone who is less than 100 pounds overweight. I was over 250 pounds overweight and it was medically necessary (my medical insurance paid for the inital surgery as well as a tummy tuck after losing the weight). I have had people ask me "what was so wrong with you that you had to do something so drastic and could not do it yourself?". My response is always the same... "get to over 400 pounds and then we will talk!".... :)

AV


Avogadro
Sunday, November 16, 2003 at 22:48:56 (EST)
AMANDA:

I live in Phoenix, what governor was that?
Cherokee
Sunday, November 16, 2003 at 20:32:13 (EST)
I am so glad you posted your before and after pics here AV, and that others are posting about their experiences! I am sure some people (oscar!) think its a nip and a tuck and BOOM...your skinny! NOT!!!
LH
Sunday, November 16, 2003 at 20:11:46 (EST)
I believe that Gastric Bypass surgery is good for some people. Although it is getting out of hand. A Governor in Phoenix just had the surgery and i feel as though he did not need it. The surgery should be for people who absolutely can not loose the weight and are using the surgery as a last resort.
Amanda
email: btwty@juno.com
Sunday, November 16, 2003 at 18:11:38 (EST)
Thanks LH (forgot which LH ;)

I just wanted to add that I didn't mean I wouldn't be capable of enjoying life at middle - age , that came out wrong. I just want to lose enough to be healthy asap so it doesn't keep me from doing fun stuff with my kids!!
Margarita
Sunday, November 16, 2003 at 16:55:23 (EST)
The original question was "is this a medical necessity for some, or just an easy way out?". A life-saving or life-extending operation is definitely a necessity. I think that if a person has such a problem with weight control, whether it be medical or mental, they need to have this option open to them. Obviously it can't be called an "easy way out". After reading the posts of the people who are living with the surgery it seems very scary, a life change not to be taken lightly. We see only the results(Wow, did you look at Avogadro's pics?) not the hard road to it. I can't understand the mental or emotional process that keeps some people from regulating their bodies(barring medical problems and medications which cause weight gain), but I can't ignore the fact that it happens and sometimes drastic measures are needed to overcome it, Oscar.
Alan
Sunday, November 16, 2003 at 16:32:57 (EST)
Yes, it is NOT an "easy way out". This involves accepting a major life-style change as well as the first 9-12 months of adjustment. Being 3 years out, I am fine now. But, those first few months are not easy. Learning to eat 2 tablespoons of food at a time, getting all the water you need to keep from being dehydrated, taking that first stab at having a piece of candy and then experiencing "dumping" for the first time!! It is a major surgery and should be reserved for peoplelike myself whose lives were in danger due to morbid obesity.

http://www.geocities.com/avogadro1971/

AV


Avogadro
email: avogadro1971@yahoo.com
Sunday, November 16, 2003 at 13:45:36 (EST)
Hi All,
I must say that as a nurse I am thrilled to see that such a procedure exists. But also there are many side effects and consequences to the surgery. There are three different types of surgeries that exist and the right one would have to be what you and your doctor decide upon.
I have taken care of patients when I worked in the surgical ICU who underwent the surgery. Besides the embarrassment of needing the surgery, the patients were unable to "fit" in a normal bed. A special "BIG BOY" bed had to be ordered after their surgery. Because of the pain the patients had, it took usually up to 6 staff members to boost them up in bed or turn them if they needed the bedpan because it hurt too much for them to move themselves. Once they regained some strength, they had to go through a long period of physical therapy and dietary therapy to learn how to eat properly for their new "stomach".
These patients have to go through a lifestyle change forever. They have to take many vitamins and minerals as supplements since they are missing most of their digestive track that absorbs the nutrients. But of benefit to these patients is it can basically cure diabetes, hypertension (high blood pressure), arthritis, high cholesterol, knee, back, and joint problems from carrying around the extra weight, and boost self esteem.

Now that I work in the ER, I unfortunately see some of the not so good effects of the surgeries on patients. Many patients come in extremely fatigued since they are not getting enough nutrition in their bodies and also have a low red blood cell count from low production. They also may get something called "dumping syndrome" which causes nothing to be absorbed and all to come out as diarrhea. If they should have a stomach bleed of any sort we can not take care of them the conventional (normal) way by inserting a nasogastric tube down their nose into their stomach to suction out the blood or scope their throat, stomach and intestine to locate the bleed due to the surgical closure. Should this occur they have to do invasive surgery to locate the bleed, causing the patient to have to be put under general anesthesia and have an incision made into their abdomen. That is a lot more intensive than a normal 15 minute scope at the bedside.

These patients are not "cured" by any means with the surgery. It is not an easy way out, but rather a drastic lifestyle change. The good points in many cases outweigh the bad points. But the important thing to consider is it is not for everyone, and those who do undergo the surgery MUST be morbidly obese to the point of imminent death unless something is done due to their weight.

The entire other issue that could be discussed are the not so morbidly obese people who drive down to Mexico and pay a few thousand dollars cash for the procedure to be done by a "doctor" and come home the next day without the appropriate therapy following the surgery and visit our ER's on a regular basis because the procedure was not done right. Plus, the patients may have only been 50 pounds overweight to begin with and NOT needing such a drastic change. And it is for LIFE, not a year or two and then reversed.
Kerri
Sunday, November 16, 2003 at 12:19:55 (EST)
Hi...wow AV great pictures on your site. A true success story.
All I can add to Margarita's post is GO Margarita GO....even if all that stuff doesn't get done in 1 day it still neds doing and sounds like a workout to me. More that a workout actually. That should put oscar in his place...if not oh well---he's on the bullet train to IGNOREsville anyway. ;)
have a good day all...
Laurie
LH in MI
Sunday, November 16, 2003 at 09:30:17 (EST)
Hi...wow AV great pictures on your site. A true success story.
All I can add to Margarita's post is GO Margarita GO....even if all that stuff doesn't get done in 1 day it still neds doing and sounds like a workout to me. More that a workout actually. That should put oscar in his place...if not oh well---he's on the bullet train to IGNOREsville anyway. ;)
have a good day all...
Laurie
LH in MI
Sunday, November 16, 2003 at 09:30:11 (EST)
Thank you for all the nice replies! Yes, it has been WONDERFUL to live a "normal" life... to not have to request a table since you can't fit in a booth, to not have to worry about the seat belt in a friends car not fitting, to be able to go to a movie (could not do previously since I did not fit in the seats), to actually have men ASK for my number at a club... whoo hoo!!! Actually, there is so much more to it than that. I can not even begin to go into the ways that it has changed my life, the way I feel about myself. I used to date really CRAPPY men.... now, I expect the best. I expect him to open my doors, pull out my chairs, etc... At 400 pounds, if he just looked at me, that was good enough! It is SO different!

Until you have been morbidly obese,you can not talk about how you would react, what you would do, etc.. It is a personal choice. It is not for everyone. It worked for me and improved my life 500%!!!

http://www.geocities.com/avogadro1971/photopagefloral.html


AV
Avogadro
email: Avogadro1971@yahoo.com
Sunday, November 16, 2003 at 00:06:15 (EST)
Gastric bypass makes the stomach smaller then "bypasses" a good part of the digestive system, thereby reducing the amount of food that can be digested (so you absorb less). It is a MAJOR surgery & has MAJOR risks like all surgeries and should not be entered into without research, planning & a commitment to hard work. Any decent doctor will verify that ALL other means to weight loss have been tried multiple times without success & that one's health is seriously at risk without the procedure (as morbid obesity comes with a LOAD of health problems that usually can be eliminated or at least lessened in severity with loss of weight.) I am overweight, I have two kids, I work full-time. It IS hard to find time to exercise & it's hard to eat right when people bring doughnuts and cookies to work. It's a life-style change that lasts a lifetime and it's HARD but I'm trying. I wouldn't recommend this surgery if you aren't prepared for this big change but I also think it can save the life of someone who needs help. I'm not sure if I'd go for it but I don't carry an extra 300lbs & I hope I can lose some weight.
Good luck to everyone!
Kristen
email: krowenpliske@houston.rr.com
Saturday, November 15, 2003 at 23:36:55 (EST)
LH ~ no I would be a liar if I said I did those exact things all in one day - I only climb Cardiac Lane - which is 5 flights of stairs connected with steep rampways (my college is built on a hillside) 5 days a week. It is something like 120 steps but those ramp ways are a killer too!!
I chase the toddler everyday, and now a new puppy too (forgot how much work THOSE are), do housework more or less everyday just not the exact same housework every day. I only clean shavings several days a week but on other days I have other horsie chores to do, moving bales, working them out and even brushing them this time of year when their coats are nothing but dried mud (which I DO do daily) can be exercise. I knwo Oscar was just trying to be a butt-nugget but he really made me mad - his ASSumption that people are fat because they don't get exercise or eat poorly is a joke. I'm a little fat because I used to be an emotional eater and at one point I had enough crap going on in my life that it made a huge difference in my life. Now things are better and I have the emotional eating in check, but it is still very hard to lose the weight. I have lost some very slowly, and maybe some day I will have lost it all. Hopefully I won't be in my mid-life by then and will still be able to enjoy it. If Oscar's theory is correct, then my dh should be huge - he eats so much and other than work he doens't exercise at all. ANd I mean the boy eats!! ANd slabs of butter and salt on everything (I don't put either on our food so he adds it on to everything). He has a 29 inch waist and no visible fat.

Sorry to hear about your tmj - what does it feel like when it is starting? My jaw has been bugging me lately but no popping - it just feels so tight it hurts when I yawn.
Yes, AV does look great!! Right on AV!
Ok, homework to do now.

Margarita
Saturday, November 15, 2003 at 23:22:36 (EST)
Margarita...whew! You do all that everyday? Well, now I do feel lazy! LOL! I had lost 7 lbs the other day when I went for my doctor apt...but that was just because I've been in suchpain with my tmj that I don't eat much anymore! So sick of oatmeal and soup I could SCREAM!!!

I think oscar was just trying to get a rise...not sure...but you know as well as I do that we get "those people" in here from time to time!

So did you check out my friend AV's website?? Amazing, huh? Love the "After"pic of her holding up her old jeans!!!AV I am proud of YOU!!

Well, TC!!! :-)
LH
Saturday, November 15, 2003 at 22:37:12 (EST)
Oscar ~
I usually try to refrain from attacking people for their opinions on here, but your self- righteous, narrow-minded sad self can kiss mine.
I am not by any stretch of the imagination morbidly obese. I don't sit around on my fanny all day stuffing my face with mac and cheese or McD's - in fact I have eliminated sugar and simple carbohydrates from my diet to help to lose weight. I still struggle to lose weight...
You want to mock the stairs I climb at school every day - come climb them yourself and I can guarantee you will be sucking wind at the top just like everyone else is who climbs them - 18 yr olds, athletes, a high school vollyball coach I have a class with - I have yet to walk up Cardiac Lane and have my fellow stair climbers be able to maintain a conversation. ANd if stair climbing wasn't exercise, why are there stair climbers? Have you shoveled horse crap lately? A horse excretes aproximately 8 horsepiles a day each weighing about 25 pounds. Times this by three and then shovel it out with all the wet shavings from urine. Not exercise?? Then do housework, chase a toddler and do homework, make dinner, visit spouse. Feel like working out still? If you say yes I think you are lying. And if you say that my day isn't exercise, then you are full of crap and don't have a realistic common sense bone in your body. If your goal was just to be offensive and get someone worked up you can stop because you have been succesful.

Somone else mentioned that cutting calories can be counter-productive and that is 100% true - our bodies do go into starvation mode. They also adjust and platuea and it takes even more intense work to keep losing weight. What are we supposed to do, quit our jobs and live off of welfare so we can make losing weight our full time occupation?
I guess so according to Oscar. As far as I am concerned this surgery sounds great when used appropriately.
Maybe Oscar should do a little research as well, I don't think it is ONLY the reduced calories that cause weight loss with this proceedure.
Margarita
Saturday, November 15, 2003 at 21:16:52 (EST)
Thank LH!

Glad you told me about this... you knew I'd have something to say right???

AV
AVOGADRO
Saturday, November 15, 2003 at 18:17:03 (EST)
Way to go AV!! That's my girl!!! ((((HUGS))))
LH*
LH
Saturday, November 15, 2003 at 15:50:29 (EST)
http://www.geocities.com/avogadro1971/photopagefloral.html
AVOGADRO
Saturday, November 15, 2003 at 15:37:22 (EST)
email address was a typo in my first post!
AVOGADRO
email: avogadro1971@yahoo.com
Saturday, November 15, 2003 at 15:36:33 (EST)
First of all, Oscar - you are a moron.

I am 31 years old and had Gastric Bypass Surgery over 3 years ago. I weighed over 400 pounds. I have lost 236 pounds. This is not an "easy" way out. I spent a year researching the procedure, interviewing doctors, talking to my insurance company, etc. You have to know what you are getting into, understand the risks and the life-style change required. If I had not had this surgery, I would not have lived to 40. See my webpage for "before" and "after" pictures and then tell me if you still think it wasn't a good choice. I have not had any complications.

http://www.geocities.com/avogadro1971/photopagefloral.html
AVOGADRO
email: avogadfro1971@yahoo.com
Saturday, November 15, 2003 at 15:35:20 (EST)
You all can say whatever you want to say about weight loss. I for one will say I could stand to lose 10 lbs but I will do so by eating LESS and exercising MORE. Period.
oscar
Saturday, November 15, 2003 at 14:19:30 (EST)
Although I would never personally undergo such a drastic procedure to lose weight, if it will save someone's life who is "morbidly" obese, then by all means do it. I know that many health problems come from being overweight and also "too skinny". I am a firm believer if you need to lose weight then you eat a healthy diet with lots of fruits and vegitables and exercise.
viewer
Saturday, November 15, 2003 at 09:30:36 (EST)
wow that's a new on on me. never heard of that---i guess if one was hit hard enough that would happen---but anyone hitting THAT hard needs to be reported Geez..
LH in MI
Saturday, November 15, 2003 at 08:02:26 (EST)
i was told if you slap a child's hand it can burst a vein and cause it to be amputated. i was told this by a close friend whom advised me never to spank my childs hand because in cause serious problems. is this so?
mariela barnes
email: marielabarnes@yahoo.com
Saturday, November 15, 2003 at 00:04:32 (EST)
oscar...looks like you might have some "problems" of your own!? Making fun of people because they are overweight is both childish and mean! Maybe if you were alittle less sarcastic and arrogant and debated in a more civil manner, you would be taken seriously!
LH
Friday, November 14, 2003 at 23:25:42 (EST)
hi im really considering gastric bypass surgury how does one start the procedure please help
susan celebrano
email: suezee@bellsouth.net
Friday, November 14, 2003 at 22:56:42 (EST)
oscar--I totally respect your right to your own opinion on this, and what you are saying makes perfect mathematical sense, on paper anyway. But can we please display a little less antagonism toward the 'big' people out there? Most overweight folks already feel sensitive about their size to begin with; never mind being called lazy despite their best efforts, whatever those might be.
I personally have never had weight issues, but I try to use a bit of sensitivity even if a person has no one to blame but himself. Chances are good that he already knows it and a sermon coming from a slim person isn't going to help. I'm not looking for an argument; just hoping for a slightly different approach. Thanks.

SH--I agree: skinny as a rail isn't always beautiful. But healthy is always attractive.
Philbert
Friday, November 14, 2003 at 22:10:03 (EST)
You expect me and anyone else out there with a brain to believe that you actually exercised AND dieted and didn't see any results? YOU LIE! You may have exercised a little and still ate a pot of macaroni and cheese with all the "fixens" after that Big Mac. Or walked up a flight of stairs and called that "exercise".
I do believe that some people have a predisposition to be larger than others, but not to the point of morbidly obese. What do you think the surgery does? Like an earlier post said, the surgery makes it so you can only have small amounts of food at a time...and then what happens...you lose weight! Oh my goodness, what a concept. LESS FOOD = WEIGHT LOSS! And when you are able to carry the extra weight you gave yourself over the past X many years, add some exercise to the equation and watch the pounds melt off. Gastric bypass is an "easy out". This topic is just as debatable as the people suing McDonald's for their children's obesity.
oscar
Friday, November 14, 2003 at 21:00:31 (EST)
I AM DISAPPOINTED TO READ CERTAIN COMMENTS ABOUT THIS SURGERY I RECENTLY HAD THIS SURGERY ON OCT 7 2003 AND I HAVE LOST 35 POUNDS..NOW YOU COULD LOOK AT THIS SEVERAL WAYS, I COULD HAVE PUKED ALL MY FOOD OUT AND DIE OF BELLIMIA OR I COULD HAVE STAYED THE WEIGHT AND BEEN MADE FUN OF MY WHOLE LIFE BY IGNORANT PEOPLE WHO THOUGHT THEY WERE BETTER THAN ME BECAUSE THEY ARE SKINNIER THAN ME OR I COULD HAVE EXCERCISED AND DIET AND SEE NO RESULTS AND GET FRAUSTED AND BEEN DEPRESSED AND THEN EVENTUALLY GET HEART DISEASE AND DIETBETES AND PROBERLY OTHER SICKNESSES OR I COULD GET THIS OPERATION WILL YOU KNOW WHAT I HAVE BEEN THROUGH EVERYTHING THAT I JUST MENTIONED AND THE ONLY THING THAT HAS HELPED ME LOSE THIS WEIGHT IS THE OPERATION AND AS OF YESTERDAY I FOUND OUT THAT I KNOW LONGER HAVE SUGAR IN MY SYSTEM AND THAT I AM HEALTHIER THAN EVER........SO YOU ASK WHY DID YOU GET SO BIG TO BEGIN WITH WILL ,EVERYBODY HAS DIFFERENT REASONS AND WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE FOR ME I WAS DIAGNOSED WITH LUPUS ABOUT 3 MONTHS AFTER GIVING BIRTH TO MY BABY AND I HAD TO GET ON STEROIDS RIGHT AWAY AND EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT STEROIDS MAKES YOU GAIN A LOT OF WEIGHT ,,SO IT IS SAD THAT PEOPLE JUDGE ME WITHOUT KNOWING THE STORY DO I FEEL SAD FOR MYSELF NO,,,,,,BECAUSE I AM PROBERLY SMALLER IN BODY NOW BUT I AM A BIGGER PERSON IN HEART THAN MOST PEOPLE OUT THERE ....SO PEOPLE NEED TO LOOK AT THEMSELVES BEFORE JUDGING OTHERS
LATOYA
email: STANKAPC@HOTMAIL.COM
Friday, November 14, 2003 at 19:38:54 (EST)
this surgery is not easy to be approved for. oscar is full of it and just trying to get people riled up. telling the morbidly obese to 'stop being lazy' is like pleading with a anorexic to just 'quit puking and eat something'.
LH in MI
Friday, November 14, 2003 at 18:57:18 (EST)
This is not for the slightly overweight people. This is for those who are considered morbidly obease. My husbands, dad's, best friend weighs over 450 pounds! While you may think he should get up and exercise...and stop being so lazy, try even WALKING with an extra 300 pounds on your shoulders. Its not easy. He has an eating disorder, and this is mostly physchological. Anyway, all of this is besides the point. He recently went in, in a last ditch effort, to find out if he could get this surgery. Because of the massive amounts of health problems he currently has, he did not get approved for the surgery. This is so sad, because now he is inflicted with liver disease (caused by his diabetes), and he can hardly walk. While you may think this man is lazy, and he did this to himself - yes he did. But would you tell an alcoholic that there wasn't help for them, or an bullemic, or a drug addict? I would think not.
A Goodwin
Friday, November 14, 2003 at 16:16:57 (EST)
SH...I agree people should not try to look like the skinny, anorexic models and that being overweight is not always a problem for some. Most of the people who have this surgery are grossly overweight which is not healthy and may even pose a health risk!
LH
Friday, November 14, 2003 at 15:54:58 (EST)
It is sad that this surgery is even available, but I guess that's what our skinny-obsessed society has given us.

Of course I agree that obese people should try to lose weight by eating healthy and exercising, but for their own HEALTH, not to make them into another cookie cutter person.

My sister and I have always been considered "overweight" by all the textbooks, but we are both active in many sports, we don't overeat, and we are HEALTHY. We don't diet and we don't overeat either. Why can't people realize that skinny ISN'T necessarily beautiful and that HEALTHY IS BEAUTIFUL.
SH
Friday, November 14, 2003 at 13:12:27 (EST)
I had this surgery done when I was 19 years old. I am now 36 years old I had tried a buch of diets and the weight would never come off and stay off no matter how hard I tried.It was very major surgery after I had the surgery I was in ICU for 3 days for the pain medicine could only be given in this area. It was also very hard to get back to a ormal life because I was off work for 6 weeks. I also had to start on clear fluids and then gradually went to full fluidsfor 4 weeks. After that I could go on solids but they had to be ground up like baby food and very bland. This was also for 4 weeks. After that they said I could start on solid food and I was very nervous about starting because I had only eaten very small amounts of soft ground up food. It was very scarry but it worked. I still would not suggest anyone get this surgery done because there are still foods to this day that I can't eat because they are very hard to digest like and raw vegetable or red meats. If you are thinking of getting this done I suggest that you really discuss it with your family and friends and also get some names of people who have had this done and talk to them if you can.

Theresa
Theresa
email: treehale@mountaincable.net
Friday, November 14, 2003 at 11:11:17 (EST)
While the potential is there for this procedure to be abused by those with lots of money and little willingness to try alternatives first, the fact of the matter is this: major surgery is never an "easy" way out.
Yes, North American society needs to change it's dietary ways. In general we eat too much of the wrong stuff and not enough of the right stuff while not getting proper exercise. But indeed it is not always so simple. The human body has a natural response to a reduction in caloric intake, and that is to convert more of it's nutrients into stored fat than normal because the 'drought alarm' is being triggered in the brain. This is one big reason why almost all diets don't work. Then, if your body is naturally a bit more rotund than the so-called norm, you get hit with double jeopardy.
I knew a guy who was 6 feet tall and an honest 380 lbs. The poor guy tried everything under the sun first in order to avoid surgery but in the end it was the only option left for him. Easy way out? definitley not. Effective as a last ditch effort? Absolutely. It probably saved his life, allowing him to avoid a heart attack in his mid forties.
Philbert
Thursday, November 13, 2003 at 23:26:36 (EST)
oscar...just because other countries may "mock" our overweight people, that doesn't make it right! (And most of those countries all have "people flaws" of their own!) Some people just cannot loose the weight on their own...they may try really hard, but to no avail...so if this helps them to get down to a prefered weight where they CAN exercise and stay fit, I say they should go for it!
LH
Thursday, November 13, 2003 at 22:55:17 (EST)
I really don't know much about the after-effects of this surgery but from what those who have been through it are posting I would say it doesn't sound like an easy way out.
My whole family is a little chunky - even my sister who competes in triatholons, climbs mountains and kyaks regulalry is probably considered overweight. She certainly isn't lacking in exercise...
I don't eat emotionally anymore, but losing the weight I gained because I did is very hard... with a toddler, a full load plus of college courses, a husband and horses, housework and homework, it is safe to say I am not laying around being lazy all day. I would like to exercise more, but when do I have the time? I do my housework at an accelerated pace, I take the stairs at school (it ain't called Cardiac Lane for nothing) and the chores associated with horsekeeping aren't exactly lightweight. If I could afford it, I would seriously consider the proceedure.
Sorry folks, life isn't as black and white as we might like it to be. Heavy people are not neccessarily lazy people, or glutons.
Margarita
Thursday, November 13, 2003 at 21:27:15 (EST)
Easy way out no doubt about it! If you are able to gain the weight yourself, you should be able to lose the weight yourself. FACT: decrease calories (that means don't eat a lot of food people) AND exercise (to decrease more calories folks of the food you DID eat) equals weight LOSS! It doesn't take a scientist to figure out that one...or a surgeon charging $10,000 for the procedure. Our society has become so lazy it is pathetic! No wonder Europe and Asia mock us and our "fat" people along with our educational system! LAZY!
oscar
Thursday, November 13, 2003 at 18:42:36 (EST)
hi--finally a new question! ;-)
No I do not think that gastric bypass is an easy way out. I work in a dr.'s office and all the work up and counseling that is needed PRIOR to the procedure---then the total lifestyle change afterwards really "weeds out" the ones that are just looking for a way out. Most of our patients are serious and fully understand the potential risks involved. There have been *very* few that start the work up and then do not follow thru. I think it is a wonderful thing for the morbidly obese. What a blessing to see our patients faces as they weigh in at their check ups (after surgery) and watch their weight decrease like never before.
take care all...
Laurie in MI
LH in MI
Thursday, November 13, 2003 at 17:40:43 (EST)
Hi Melissa and congrats on the weight loss!! Yes, my friend had to go see a shrink too and underwent several months of emotional testing before having proceedure!
LH
Thursday, November 13, 2003 at 12:13:37 (EST)
I had the surgery in May of 02 and I have lost 165lbs. It is not an EASY WAY OUT it is a long recovery and also a total lifestyle change. My entire family is overweight and I tried several times to lose weight. Everyone before the surgery always told me I didn't overeat and I wasn't a closet eater either. The procedure helped me lose the weight and now I am able to enjoy life more. I was always a happy person and never was depressed about my weight, I am just a happeier person now. It was a very hard time for about 4 months after the procedure and I don't think anyone would want to experiance that just as an easy way out. To my knowledge all the doctors doing the procedure now require 3-6 months of testing I went through 6 months of testing before my surgery even had to go to a shrink. So from 1st hand experiance it is not an easy way out not at all!!! Maybe a healthier way out to live longer.
Melissa
email: mperrille1@cox.net
Thursday, November 13, 2003 at 11:35:09 (EST)
I believe that for some people that it is medically necessary. There are some people that have certain medical conditions that make them "weightloss resistant". However, for the majority I think most people do it as an easy way out. I have been overweight for several years now and have tried practically every diet under the sun only to end each with failure. I had even considered gastric bypass because I thought I would be fat forever and that was my only option. I am now on a program that approaches the emotional/mental aspect of being over weight first and I have to say it is absolutely amazing. I can now pinpoint everything I was doing to contaminate myself. Its no wonder that I could never lose weight. I am a very firm believer that if you heal the emotions/mental aspect you can lose weight. Its a hard road but if you really want to lose weight without having a gastric bypass it can be done.
LG
Thursday, November 13, 2003 at 10:55:23 (EST)
I do not know a lot about this procedure, but one thing makes me curious. If people loose weight as a result of this surgery then it is obvious that food quantity was an issue for the obesity, yes? It just seems that if they could limit the amount of food intake the same result could be achieved. i honestly do not know all the ins and outs of this so I am seriously asking....

PJB
Thursday, November 13, 2003 at 09:34:53 (EST)
If they can afford it and are willing to take the surgical risks, POWER TO 'EM. I, myself, have struggled with diet after diet and only find myself heavier. I would seriously consider gastric bypass if the financial aspect were more favorable.
Jennifer
email: jennyren74@msn.com
Thursday, November 13, 2003 at 06:17:16 (EST)
I think it may be a medical necessity for some and maybe even a Godsend! I have several friends who have had it done that had not been able to loose the weight naturally before...most will say it was really hard on them, but very much worth it! One had said the worst part was only being able to eat teaspoon sized portions of food and not healing very well afterward...wow, you should see him now! Once the weight came off, he is able to be more active and is a real "looker" now! Just only having to need to loose a small amount myself, I know how wonderful this must feel to someone who has struggled with their weight!
LH
Wednesday, November 12, 2003 at 23:22:36 (EST)