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Welcome to the Sound Off Discussion Board, where parents from all walks of life and all parts of the world come together in one place to share their opinions and thoughts about the question of the week. Please remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion and the freedom to express it. Obscene posts are unwelcome and shall be removed from the board. Please keep in mind that this is a public board. Never post personal information that you would be uncomfortable sharing with others. Comments about this board should be sent to iParenting's Webmaster. Thank you for contributing! If you have a suggestion for the question of the week, send it to feedback@iparenting.com.

Do you feel the Michael Jackson arrest on allegations of child molestation is a “modern-day lynching,” as his brother Jermaine has described it?

For archived topics, click here.

hiya ya'll (I'm pretending I'm in Texas instead of rainy wet cold Washington ;-)

Cherokee _ I forgot to say earlier that it's nice to e-see you too! ;-) I was so sad about Goodwin that I forgot to say hi! Goodwin has been posting on here longer than me, and she and I didn't always share the same opinion but she is an interesting and worthwhile lady. I don't mean that to sound as if I am agreeing that you go stirring things up, just letting you know why I am sad she is leaving.

My knitting is calling me...
Margarita
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 23:51:01 (EST)

Jmo - yep I think that is a pretty fair assessment. i did let myself get roped in today lol!
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 19:31:47 (EST)

CHEROKEE-no problem, I got ya covered!
Kerri
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 19:26:17 (EST)

hi all.
wow, A.GOODWIN, we will miss you here. i'm sorry you feel that way about continuing to post here, since we have had some intellectual interesting debates, however, if you feel you must move on, then good luck in all you do!!

i have to say, after reading GOODWIN's post, that while perhaps a bit dramatic, i do think she had a point.

CHEROKEE, this is in no way intended to attack you! i enjoy reading your posts and i think you seem like a great mom, so please don't misinterpret me. i am only "singling" you out cause i think GOODWIN did.

i do think that perhaps the silly arguing has gone a bit far on the board. up until several months ago we would have a "fight" here and there (i think RILEY can vouch for that!) but in my opinion it wasn;t really bickering as much as debating. and that what was so great about the board (again in MY opinion).

for example, VIEWER and i have butted heads (don't know if she remembers that or not!), and RILEY and i have in the past as well. when i first started posting i think i even argued with PJB and LYNE on occasion, and most certainly LH (who is now my internet friend!)

BUT the important thing is that we (for the most part) had healthy debates and i think we appreciated each other's opinions, no matter how different they were. of course there have been times/topics when we have been appalled at another posters opinions, and certain debates have gotten some of us quite riled up.

maybe i'm seeing it with rose-colored glasses, but i really feel like for the most part we have maintained some sort of comraderie (sp?) with other posters.

WHEW, sorry this is so long-winded. i guess my point is let's try to just ignore the posters who are so obviously here intending to ruffle feathers. let's stick to productive "arguing"?

anyone agree?
j-mo
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 19:20:12 (EST)

Hey Angela - LOL! I think I've been sanctioned by A Goodwin because according to her standards I was on the 'net too much today? Hope she doesn't tell my dh LOL!
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 18:27:52 (EST)

CHEROKEE--Hola mi amiga! Wow--loony tunes are out in force today yes? Where did this saraj goofball crawl up from? Are she and Julie the same person? Anyhoo--I think saraj is feeding off of your frustration with her...ignore her, and maybe she'll go away. I'm hoping she will because her complete lack of spelling and grammar skills is irritating me! Who spells "woman" with a "y" instead of an "a"? If a troll is going to come on the board and argue an insane point, at least give the impression of some intelligence when it comes to spelling and grammar. GEEZ! To the rest of you...I know people make spelling/typing errors, but this saraj character is really annoying.
AGoodwin--that WAS a bit dramatic! Was that REALLY you who typed that?
angela
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 18:22:41 (EST)

A Goodwin ~ best of luck to you and your dh (and his pursuit of his teaching certificate - I just passed my state standardized test for entry into a program). I hope your pregnancy goes smoothly - I used to visit babycenter too. Did you do a personal calendar? Will miss you here.
Margarita
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 18:02:39 (EST)

Amen to that PJB. I took offense to her statement also, my niece is now 8 yrs old and was born without joints in her elbows and knees. She is sharp as a tack her only disability is that condition. She does everything others kids do, except is a little harder. It does look very strange and people always stare. She is so precious. I can't imagine her not being on this earth.
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 17:43:27 (EST)

I dont understand goodwin's need for such a dramatic exit.
PJB
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 17:36:25 (EST)

saraj, to hear you say that you have 4 "wanted" children shows just how evil you are. who do you think you are to decide just who is worthy of life and who is not just on your selfish lazy whim? 2 abortions??? why dont you just get the the tubes tied if you are so irresponsible? it is evident that you have no concience (sp?)in that you can just kill your own flesh and blood because you feel like doing it. And why is it all you baby killers use the same example of "the baby was deformed and wouldnt live anyway"? do you realize how rare that is? i wish that you and your evil ilk would just admit you bow at the altar of abortion because you dont want the "inconvenience" of raising a baby, not because you are trying to spare it from a disadvataged life as if you are noble. I won't even bother going on about how babies in ANY form are a gift from God as you made it clear that you dont beleive in Him. The only satisfaction i have from this is knowing that you will have to answer to Him one day.

PJB
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 17:34:17 (EST)

Good riddance A Goodwin. You're an uber-liberal dumbass and we won't miss your displays of gross ignorance. Please take Saraj with you. She's even more clueless about the world than you.

Saraj = utopian communist
Harold
email: b@b.com
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 17:25:30 (EST)

I mean at least I have the nerve to SAY my opinion, if you want to be PC that is fine. Babycenter sounds like a nice pc place to be. And don't single me out...I'm not the only one here who had a prob with Saraj and Julie, cookie!
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 17:12:31 (EST)

Well yeah the sight says...add your opinion to sound off...what do you care how I spend my day off? Buh bye!
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 17:09:38 (EST)

I used to be a regular on this board, but I decided after reading these posts that this will be my last post here. After all, it's one thing to debate a topic...it's another to bash one's own opinions.

Cherokee: You should have your own website to discuss your opinions. Your either an internet junky who feels you have to respond to everyone's opinions...or you have no life. Seriously, not everyone has to think the way that you do, and I think its sad how you get so upset with everyone and basically start fights.

Riley's Mom: I've always enjoyed your posts - although at times I've disagreed with some. Good luck to you!

Margarita: Your one of the few sane regulars left posting...I don't know how you do it!

SC: If your out there...I hope that this month has brought good success ttc!! Come visit me at babycenter.com at the April disucssion board...I'd love to keep in touch with you and know how things turned out!

For all those who would like to talk to people about parenting - or other issues - you should come to babycenter.com. I've had a wonderful time talking and discussing issues about all topics - without all of the rude, and insensitive attitudes. Hope to see the "friendly" chatters there!

- Allison

A Goodwin
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 17:03:13 (EST)

Good question. His crimes were against Iraq. I think he should have to suffer there. American prisons are way to humane with the ACLU breathing down their necks. And we have to honor the Geneva Convention, although I think that only holds true in times of war and think we are technically no longer at war.
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 16:19:47 (EST)

I'll play devil's advocate and change the question...

How should Saddam be punished?

Julie
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 16:11:22 (EST)

SAME QUESTION STILL??? PLEASE CHANGE IT IPARENTING!
viewer
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 16:01:17 (EST)

Truce. :)
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 15:55:32 (EST)

I wasn't acting out...I simply misunderstood what you were trying to say. I apologize.

As for me being her, well, that was just low. I've never been so insulted. lol Truce?
Julie
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 15:52:24 (EST)

hey Margarita - nice to "see" you!
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 15:50:01 (EST)

Thank God Kerri - a sane person to join me on the board.
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 15:43:31 (EST)

Saraj~ I've refrained from posting to you because everyone else was doing a fine job, but just couldn't take it any more....
by the way it's womAn not womyn - thought it was a typo at first but you spell it that way every dang time.
Are you from Washington State? Just curious.... there has been ALOT of info on the news about the morning after pill and you mentioned it. We are one of the states that offers it w/o prescription and always have and I believe that is becoming the norm in all states now.

I've admitted on here before and now I will do it again, when I was 17 I had an abortion - my now dh and I used a condom but still managed to get pg and I was terrified to tell my parents. It was the most selfish thing I have ever done in my life and I still suffer for it daily.... yet I still do support a woman's right to choose abortion EARLY in the pregnancy. Late term abortion is disgusting. I too think you are hypocritical to support late term abortion but be so superior about war. As far as Saddam only being tried for murders he committed with his own hands: if I arranged for my husband to be murdered I would be tried for his murder just as well as the person who actually murdered him. Why should Saddam recieve any different treatment?
I am just curious - do our soldiers kill for the love of killing? DO they use killing as the first defense or would they rather have the "enemy" surrender? Do they shoot only after being shot at or when their requests are ignored? I'll have to email my husband's best friend and find out what the policy is... at any rate - watch who you call a murderer Saraj - the president, Saddam, the soldiers over there fighting for your freedom to have an abortion, they are no more murderers than you or I sweets. Thank God I do have religion in my life and my daughter will be raised with religion - at least we will have some sort of salvation.
Margarita
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 15:41:48 (EST)

Julie - you know what? You got a hate on girl. Yes, I am aware one can have GOD without religion. Why are acting out? Because I "implied" something about another poster...Know what? I think you are her lol!!
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 15:41:38 (EST)

One can believe in God without believing in religion, Cherokee.
Julie
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 15:36:31 (EST)

How anyone can have children AND be a "proud" memeber of NARAL is beyond me. To the point of emergency contraception being available over the counter, I think they should also add birth control pills to that list. There are many teens out there who are having sex, but are too scared to ask their parents to take them to the doctor so they can get the RX for it. So as a result, they are having sex, mostly without contraception, and becoming pregnant. Now I am a firm believer of "if you are old enough to have sex, you are old enough to endure the consequences". If a teen gets pregnant, than she needs to own up to it, have the baby, and possibly put it up for adoption if she is unable to care for it. There are thousands of wonderful couples out there who are unable to have children just waiting for the chance to raise someone else's "unwanted" baby. Abortions are not the answer. Abstinence and adoption are.

"Saddam cannot maime and murder, but it is insane for one person to be blamed for deaths of others when he was not the one who did the actual killing. He should be tried for the people he murdered with his own hands. Not for what other people did under his "authority". I don't believe in war. If no one joined the army, navy, etc...we would not have war. We would be forced to take care of buisness by speech communication.
Should Bush be tried for the murder of all of the people who were killed by our army under his authority? "
Saraj- are you for real? Do you actually believe what you wrote here? Utopia will never occur in our world. The freedom you have to express yourself as you have is because of the country you live in and the men and women who join the military to protect it. People like you do not deserve what our great country has to offer. And to think that Saddam is not to blame for the mass murders in his country is beyond belief. You are one odd cookie!

Kerri
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 15:29:02 (EST)

Now it all makes sense. When you aren't accountable to higher power...
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 15:27:04 (EST)

Saraj said there is no religion.
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 15:24:20 (EST)

Lyne, I think her posts speak for themselves...they don't get that the very fact they can do that is a result of FIGHTING for our freedom.
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 15:22:24 (EST)

Saraj
Could you describe this concept of Re-inventive Families? It sounds like a fancy way of saying that you are secular. Where does God come into it?
Julie
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 15:19:43 (EST)

Saraj I have to ask, were you one of those idiots laying in the streets opposing the war in Iraq? SUPPORT our troops, its because of THEM that you have the freedon to have the abortions that you have had!

Lyne
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 15:14:58 (EST)

I have four wanted children...they are raised pro-choice and without religion. I am proud of all I do with my family. Families like mine are called Re-inventive Families. (Or RIFers.) I am a proud member of NARAL. I have had two abortions and I am thrilled that the emergency contraception will soon be available over the counter. I am completely against war for any reason. (Freedom may not be free, but no one should have to die for it.)

What some of you think about me is of no concern. I purposely make my positions known so others feel more free to open up. I am certian someone will read these poists and breath a sigh of relief that they are not alone in their opinions. It is not that the majority of people think like some of you, but just that the ones who think more like me are quiet for the same reasons you can see on these posts.

Girls~is is really neccessary for trying to belittle a person who thinks differently than you? It is not the place for sarcasm, but a place for minds to open and possibly a place for you to learn.

Saraj
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 14:52:11 (EST)

{{sigh}} Julie, my dear, you are appearing to be the immature one. Yeeessss, I got what you were saying...it's only an insult if I am offended by what you are saying. And, you are...? No one to me. I'm sorry I didn't react in the way you had hoped.
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 14:39:31 (EST)

Did you even understand what that insult meant? ROTFLMAO
Julie
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 14:35:41 (EST)

Armed for what Julie? I choose my "battles" - what exactly are we "fighting" about? lol!
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 14:31:57 (EST)

Is that all you got Cherokee?
Here I came to a battle of wits, and it seems you are unarmed.
Julie
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 14:20:22 (EST)

Stupid typos
Imply
Julie
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 14:18:42 (EST)

Oh Julie please stop. You are too funny.
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 14:17:19 (EST)

Let me correct myself...

Inply that she is a bad mother
Julie
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 14:16:38 (EST)

Cherokee
This isn't a political debate!? Duh! Thank God you're not a politian! lol

Yes, I suppose I was defending her, because there is no reason to start saying she's a bad mother! How the hell to you know what kind of mother she is anyway? That is why it is childish and immature. You know nothing about this woman.
Julie
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 14:09:15 (EST)

I personaly think Micheal Jackson did not do it i think they just want the money.See i love Micheal Jackson i think he's a great singer even though his noise a little messed up and his skin tone is diffrent but he was so cute when he was younger i dont know what happened he's just crazy but i dont believe he did it.

THANKYOU
Tanisha Bradly
email: tanishaluvstweety@aol.com
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 14:04:29 (EST)

I personaly think Micheal Jackson did not do it i think they just want the money.See i love Micheal Jackson i think he's a great singer even though his noise a little messed up and his skin tone is diffrent but he was so cute when he was younger i dont know what happened he's jusy crazy but i dont belive he did it.

THANKYOU
Tanisha Bradly
email: tanishaluvstweety@aol.com
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 14:03:14 (EST)

Julie - have you checked this forum lately? Seems you did just defend her whether you intended to or not.

A political debate?? This is not a political debate. People get riled up so deal with it. I don't need you correcting my behavior (unless I'm mis-quoting a fact then I would appreciate a correction). When I realize I am wrong I usually apologize and I see...ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with anything I'm saying.

My point is her mentality is coddle the evil ruler and be super nice and eventually he'll put the gun down...kind of like a child throwing a tantrum. I am not immature and childish - I made a point. I can debate and argue just like anyone else here. You are saying things too. Also, the fact that I will NEVER SUPPORT partial birth abortion illustrates exactly that I would never or could ever be as low as her.
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 13:48:28 (EST)

Cherokee
I am not defending Saraj in anyway, but the fact that you just attacked the way she parents was just childish and immature. We are having a polictical debate here. There is absolutely no reason to drag Saraj's personal life into this. Congradulations! You sunk to a lower level than she has!
Julie
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 13:37:30 (EST)

P.S. Saraj

FREEDOM IS NOT FREE

Julie
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 13:33:14 (EST)

Oops. Drawm..hahaha I meant drama! Sorry!
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 13:30:01 (EST)

Julie, first of all, isn't it apparent that Saraj is one of those people who chooses to live in her happy little bubble of denial?

Also, I think it is obvious that where she comes from, teenagers giving birth to deformed or dead children is quite common due to ignorance, polluted,tainted water, and malnutrition. In the US, very very few babies are born malformed due to those conditions or bad prenatal care. Maybe where she comes from, murdering your living kicking baby by sucking its brains out is more humane (in a twisted way). Her justification for "it is a legal medical procedure"...is laughable. Because, the only reason it wasn't illegal in the beginning is because it was actually initially an experiment, and because there was no law against it - it was allowed. It took time and redtape to complete the process. So, umm, maybe it wasn't covered in your Naturalization papers Saraj, but it isn't legal anymore.

As far as the little drawm you typed out - teens having sex - I was 17 when I had my eldest daughter (of 5 babies and hopefully #6 soon)and...I was just fine. I had no help, life was difficult but I managed and that is all I shall say about it. My daughter is gorwn and beautiful and I'm glad I chose not to murder her. I considered it, it wasn't for me (the abortion). So don't imply Saraj that I don't know what the hell "it's like" etc. Get an abortion if you must in the first trimester but our point on this board was that (which you have twisted around) the baby is very much LEGALLY alive and it is inhumane.

Don't compare abortion to war. They are nothing alike and if you are trying to further your arguement by doing it, you really appear to know nothing.

As for war..you have your opinions - and I have mine. You will, I must say, be outnumbered in this forum. Your thinking is ...I don't know what the hell it is. I think you get off stirring up SH*&.

And we co-slept with our children. OUR OWN CHILDREN!! until they were around 9months of age. My nieces and nephews don't sleep with us, nor do children who come over for sleepovers. It isn't appropriate and tough crap - that is the world we live in. Your hearts and flowers mentality (the "in a perfect world" phrase comes to mind)is just that - dreaming. There will always be guns, so out-law guns and then the criminals (like Saddam) will have them, rise up and be horrific dictators. I still don't see how you can defend a man like that. You say try to reason with him? Didn't we so that like 15 years ago and every attempt was futile? I suppose we should have allowed him to continue his reign of terror just so we didn't upset Saraj's perfect little world. I bet when her kid throws a tantrum for a toy in a store she probably just gives it to him so she doesn't "upset" nature's perfect balance. She'll probably tell ya her kid doesn't throw tantrums. Bleeccchht!

I note: you haven't responded to why you CHOOSE to live in America and not your homeland. I think that speaks for itself.
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 13:27:51 (EST)

Sounds like Saraj is as crazy as MJ is. So, you would let your children sleep over at MJ's house then?
Lyne
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 13:18:40 (EST)

Cherokee, I agree with you 100% . God bless all our babies!
Lyne
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 13:17:30 (EST)

SaraJ - how can you stand for one type of murder (and it is murder) and dislike the other?

I am very baffled by your observations. Why is alright to allow a woman to kill her child, yet not for a person killing those unrelated?

By the way I am not a lover of war and I most certainly am disgusted by the thought of women having abortions.

Try to think out your answers before you write them.
Riley's Mom
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 13:14:11 (EST)

Monsters do exist, but they're all human.
Julie
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 13:06:53 (EST)

You go ahead with your peace talks...but who will protect all those people who are getting shot, raped, and starving to death while you're in a nice cozy room, eating bon bons, talking about it! Madmen like Saddam do not respond to talking! You cannot force everyone to be peaceful and loving. Some people are just pure evil.
Julie
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 12:57:18 (EST)

Parital birth abotions involve pulling a live infant out of the womb far enough to shove scissors into it's skull and pull out it's brains. Do you want to be that baby? Look up abortion on the Internet and take a good look at those pictures of baby parts in the trash can. That is reality Saraj. That is the worst violence among the most innocence of all people under God!
Julie
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 12:52:47 (EST)

Julie~

Peace doesn't have to be a dream. It is just that not enoyght people are willing to work at it...they are all too busy with their own lives and trying to run other's that there is just not enough time.

Isn't sad that we have all been so tainted by society we make excuses for killing in war and cheer when we have killed the most?
Saraj
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 12:51:18 (EST)

Oh please...if no one joined the military there would be no more war, we'd just talk about things. Look at how well we are able to discuss things on this forum. It just shows how mean and uncooperative people really are. Sometimes the only way to get the message across is a scud missile up the butt! While what you dream of is the ideal, it will never be a reality. Quite dreaming and deal with reality!
Julie
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 12:47:28 (EST)

" Cherokee says ..."I don't know what could be MORE violent against a VULNERABLE baby than a partial birth abortion"

It is a legal medical proceedure. I support a womyn's right to choose.

Cherokee says..."MJ can sleep with little children and fondle and do
whatever he wants"

You are ASSUMING MJ fondles these children. Why is it so impossible for you or anyone else to think that he sincerely LOVES these children and is just very good to them in decent ways? I don't think it is ok for a child to be molested...but MJ's opnness about his love for some of these children has been possibly turned into something it very well not be. We co-sleep with our children...it is all out of love.

Cherokee says..."Saddam can maim and murder if he wants"

Saddam cannot maime and murder, but it is insane for one person to be blamed for deaths of others when he was not the one who did the actual killing. He should be tried for the people he murdered with his own hands. Not for what other people did under his "authority". I don't believe in war. If no one joined the army, navy, etc...we would not have war. We would be forced to take care of buisness by speech communication.
Should Bush be tried for the murder of all of the people who were killed by our army under his authority?

Cherokee says..."is it male/female?"

Female, ofcourse.

Cherokee says..."Saraj is against violence but supports Saddam, late trimester abortion."

I am against war. I will NEVER come between a womyn's choice to have an abortion late term or other, it is not my life, I could never tell a womyn she cannot have an abortion. Hey CHerokee! Your daughter is 8 months pregnant and she just found out a week ago for some unexplained reason, and she is 16 and terrified...the baby is severly malformed and will not live long after birth. Your daugter is screaming and crying out of fear (after all~ she used a condom but it broke, so it was not lack of responsibilty.) And she begs you to help her pay for an abortion because she could not handle seeing this baby and she does not want to continue this pregnancy until the birth~her tears are pouring and she pleads with you...you are both very close and you hurt for her, so what do you do?

"oh honey, I'm sorry, but I don't believe in abortion~come on now, it's dinner time" The next day, you find your daughter on the bathroom floor bleeding to death from her own botched attempt.

Hey Cherokee...maybe you'd better put the crack pipe down, honey.

Saraj
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 12:35:54 (EST)

Lyne...just to clarify: I think that the majority of people were AGAINST partial birth abortion. the minority who were for it (clinics, physicians who performed the procedure and apparently COULD sleep at night)argued that until the child fully left the womb it was not "alive". How something with a beating heart, sucks its thumb swallows and yawns is not considered "alive" is beyond me. The visual image of watching that movie will never leave me and I cannot believe that it is legal in some countries. It is infanticide (not sure on sp)plain and simple.
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 11:43:02 (EST)

PJB-that made me chuckle.

I don't know what could be MORE violent against a VULNERABLE baby than a partial birth abortion. Apparently Saraj feels it's no big deal. Everybody do whatever they want to whomever they choose (i.e., MJ can sleep with little children and fondle and do whatever he wants)Saddam can maim and murder if he wants, Saraj can believe whatever she/he wants(is it male/female? I dunno)and nobody will be accountable to anyone or anything and the whole world will be mass chaos and self-destruct. People need a moral compass which is why we have rules, yes? Saraj is against violence but supports Saddam, late trimester abortion and...Michael Jackson? Ok...doesn't make any sense at all which is why I inquired on the crack pipe...:0)
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 11:37:54 (EST)

"Yeah, so I am a terrorist because I am against violence. Makes a lot of sense.

*head shake*"

Saraj
email: S
Tuesday, December 16, 2003 at 17:22:12 (EST)

Saraj is against "violence" but not against killing innocent babies? That deserves a "head shake". I sure hope you dont have kids saraj. if so, do they know they were one bad hair day away from having their brains sucked out?

PJB
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 11:30:29 (EST)

Thank you Cherokee for giving me some insight on exactly what a partial birth abortion is. Now, of course this is for another topic, I do not agree with abortion. However, like you said Cherokee, if the head was deliverd first, it would be considered murder, but they can deliver a LIVE baby kicking legs and all and suck its brains out? And people are okay with this? Its about time someone did something about it! KUDDOS Mr Bush.
Lyne
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 09:34:51 (EST)

Saraj-

I am in no way trying to forfeit your right to express your views, nor will I try; However, you made a comment that was somewhat a contradiction. At one point you said that Bush is a bad president and in the same breath you called him a bad president, in which you are ashamed because he banned partial abortion or forfeited the woman's right to have an abortion.

Can you please clarify for me your point? Having a hard time following it.
Shawanda
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 09:14:10 (EST)

Lyne, you are correct. Pres. Bush banned "partial birth" abortions. For those of you who are not familiar, or have a weak tummy - look away. Partial birth abortion to which the terrorist is referring to is where a woman (who is at least 6 months gestation, at which time you parents know and Kerri will verify is considered viable)is delivered breech except for the head. The back of the head (near the base) is punctured and the brains are extracted through a large catheter. I unfortunately had the displeasure of watching a documentary at a hospital I worked during a class, and viewed a 26 week fetus kicking wildy about until it's skull was puntured. Do you know why they can't deliver the head? Because if the head comes out, it is a LIVE BIRTH and the doctor then doing the procedure would indeed be MURDER!! Now, I understand a women's right to abort in the first trimester. Didn't say I agree with it, but I understand it. But, 2-3 trimester abortion in my opinion, and scientifically speaking, is life termination. Hmmm. Shame on Bush for terminating your right to MURDER Saraj. I AM SICKENED! Maybe where you come from where life is snuffed out at the drop at a hat (indeed life does not have the value it does in other countries)your people are sensitized to death as you see it in the streets as you walk to fetch water. Maybe 9/11 was an attempt to bring a little of the Middle East's homeland to American huh?
Cherokee
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 08:43:09 (EST)

I dont think Pres Bush took away a womans right to abortion. What he did was take away the right to terminate pregnancy in the 2-3 trimester ( if I am wrong, please correct me )which I whole heartedly agree with. He did not take away a womans right to abort. I am quite certain that most Iragi citizens are thrilled that Saddam is NO longer lingering around threatening them. As for MJ, even suggesting to sleep in the same bed with others little boys should send up a red flag!
Lyne
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 08:21:52 (EST)

cameragirl...no hun...up the river abit from there, but I'm still familiar with the area! I'll see what I can find for you! TC!!
LH
Wednesday, December 17, 2003 at 00:40:12 (EST)

LH-sorry, I thought you lived near Cincinnati...
Have a good night!
cameragirl
Tuesday, December 16, 2003 at 22:45:46 (EST)

cameragirl...that is not real close to me, but I will keep you posted on anything I can find to help you out!!

SARAJ...having the right to freely express those opinions of yours is a direct result OF putting madmen like SADDAM out of commission!

I think most of the Iraquis living here in the US (most of which live directly above me! AKKK!) are pleased that SADDAM has been captured...those that have a problem with the US, out President, our lifestyle, and what we have done to help them should get the hell out of my country! ie..."open door"..."Go home"!!!
LH
Tuesday, December 16, 2003 at 19:15:17 (EST)

Saraj - I'm going out on a limb here, but do you by any chance frequent the CRACK PIPE??? Why isn't it ok for children to sleep in the bed of a non-family??...DUH! Why is everything so negative - DUH!! Do you have children?How about letting them go over to someone's house who has had MULTIPLE accusations against him for child molestation...Why do you defend a man who committed such atrocities. You love peace? Was Saddam all about peace? Are we talkin' about the same dude here? Please. You know what, I'm wasting air and muscle talking to somebody like you. You are probably just a troll with a fake name trying to piss people off. And if you are not, what the heck are you doing in a country you are ashamed of? BUSH is a terrible president? CLINTON (LOL!) was a better president than your "victim" Saddam...even NIXON was better, it's apples and oranges, you can't even compare the two. When you make a move (especially a transworld move) or maybe your ancestors did, it's usually because it is a better place to be. Oh, wait, I want to raise my babies in a place where flies feed on their faces and bottoms and surivival rates are something like in their early to late 40's. You know where the proverbial door is darlin'. You won't make many friends on this board.
Cherokee
Tuesday, December 16, 2003 at 17:46:32 (EST)

Yes...abolish all guns...never have another war...quit taking advantage of honest people. (It's odd that people freaked out over Mike's comment about allowing children in his bed) Why do so many jump to conclusions? Why is everything so negative? And another thing I feel--->Bush is a terrible president. Trying to take away a womyn's right to an abortion. I am sickened.

By the way...I am NEVER ashamed to speak my mind. My silence will not protect me, or anyone else. I am proud of my openness to express my thoughts and feelings on ALL matters. I don't care in the least if it is not what the "majority" of people think. We are not robots..it is OK to have your own thoughts...even if others think you are insane or a "TERORIST" as another poster put it. Yeah, so I am a terrorist because I am against violence. Makes a lot of sense.

*head shake*

Saraj
email: S
Tuesday, December 16, 2003 at 17:22:12 (EST)

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Adam Pex
email: Adam Pex
Tuesday, December 16, 2003 at 13:42:09 (EST)

Poor Saddam!? Are you completely clueless on how much damage this man has inflicted on thousands of innocent people!? He is a modern day Hitler!!

Poor Micheal!? Maybe...maybe not. Would you be saying poor Micheal if you found out that he possibly had molested someone that you know? Micheal is not the only victim even if he is innocent. What about the poor child that has to testify against him? What about Micheal's own children? These children are the real victims here.
Julie
Tuesday, December 16, 2003 at 13:35:10 (EST)

LH-we will be doing a "getaway" in Cincinnati at the end of the month. Sort of a quick "what is the area like, and would we like to live here" trip. Can you suggest any "good" areas (middle-upper) we should focus on that have good public schools, low crime rate, and fun things to do? We are interested in both city and suburbs to possibly look in. Thanks! Our hotel is in a town called Mason.
cameragirl
Tuesday, December 16, 2003 at 10:44:14 (EST)

Just wanted to add I thought it was a wonderful Christmas present to ALL the world that we finally caught SADDAM!

I do, however, think he should be tried and convicted in Iraq because that is where the crimes were committed...also to send the Iraqi people a clear message that we are only there (still) to peacekeep!...Now...IF, by chance, he should happen to get out of it somehow (Lord forbid!)I would be all for someone having a might of an accident with their gun or something to put him out of our misery!!

BTW...SARAJ...it is better to keep quiet and be thought of a fool, than to speak up (as you did!) and remove all doubt!!
Good defense, Cherokee!!!

cameragirl...I'm HERE...in OHIO...God bless the BUCKS!! What was your OHIO question hun???
(I'll be off and on all day today!)
LH
Tuesday, December 16, 2003 at 06:46:38 (EST)

Angela~ I was reading my post below and sometimes I come accross so dry - usually I am in a hurry or distracted by my daughter ;0 bet you know how that is! Anyhow, I wanted to make it clear I wasn't poking at what you or anyone else said, you all have the right to post your thoughts and opinions, I just wanted to offer a different perspective. Okay, I'm calling it a night.

Margarita
Tuesday, December 16, 2003 at 03:45:05 (EST)

No, Oscar, if you thought I meant that I thought Saddam cares what is a sin and what is not, then you misunderstood what I posted. I never said that I was glad he didn't commit suicide because I thought he was a caring, God-fearing individual. Wouldn't it be hypocritical of me to be all dissapointed that he didn't commit suicide when I think it is wrong? I am 100% confident that he will get his, so I'll stick by my original opinion on the matter. I'm not saying I want him free, or that I hope he gets to live a long life in the comfort of prison. Yeah, he did some horrific things that I can't even begin to comprehend, don't think I am saying what he did was ok and that he shouldn't have to suffer the consequences.
Angela ~ ;-) I understand that in some countries death by suicide is more honorable. Probably why so many Iraqis are expressing surprise that he didn't commit suicide as well. Personally, I just don't think it is an honorable or courageous act.
Margarita
Monday, December 15, 2003 at 23:02:38 (EST)

SARAJ-what the Heck?? What are you - a terroist? YOU are ashamed of America? Why did you come here - because the Middle East was such a BETTER place to raise your children??? Where the children cannot go to school (you go to school here for free) where there is no medical attention (immigrants have access to better healthcare than Americans it is also FREE) HOW DARE YOU?! Wow. Sure. Come live off the fat of our land for free - and then say such a thing. Typical.
Cherokee
Monday, December 15, 2003 at 19:19:37 (EST)

Hey all --- some lively posts on the board last few days. I had a garage sale yesterday and somebody who happened to be of Middle Easter descent was postively giddy Saddam had been captured.

Oscar, you really shouldn't keep your feelings, not good for ya hon...(just kidding :P)LOL!

Well - I personally cracked open a cold one in celebration. Wish he could suffer the same as what he put others through...I heard on CNN there was a man talking about how Saddam's "soldiers" captured his 2nd cousin who was 8 months pregnant along with one of her children, they cut off the child's head and removed the unborn baby, and stuffed the head into her abdomen to send back to her husband who was an opponent of Saddams. The man is a horrid vile abomination who deserved NO PITY - who is this Stephanie chick anyway? (yeah, shame on us for wanting to remove someone who helped orchestrate 9/11) His demise could only mean a BLESSING for the people of Iraq. It'll be a long haul to rebuild. And what is with Mensa, I think it was...we did what they needed now basically get out? Well, after all of the lives and money we have vested into restoring this country to where the people decide who their ruler will be, I think maybe we should stick around a while and make sure we finish the job this time.
Cherokee
Monday, December 15, 2003 at 19:14:49 (EST)

Poor Michael and poor Saddam...both victims themselves. No more war...no more murder...we all have the right to this world...it isn't fair that anyone must die for it. (it should be a birth right!) I am ashamed of America right now. I can only hope to raise my children to appreciate life and freedom and that they teach their offspring and on and on.

Saraj
email: beautifulasba@charter.net
Monday, December 15, 2003 at 19:12:40 (EST)

pardon my grammar...SADDAM!
oscar
Monday, December 15, 2003 at 18:56:57 (EST)

Margarita-do you really think Sadaam cares what is a "sin" or not? The man lives and breathes terror. He raped women and very young girls, killed them many times after having sex with them. He would chop up his own people and send their remains to their family to say "this is for you". The man is a threat to society and why should anyone at all spend a dime of this "MF'er" to stay alive? We should put him in a small cage and starve the bastard. Let him die a slow death while maybe cutting off a limb here and there...
That "thing" does nothing but disgust me and my country.
oscar
Monday, December 15, 2003 at 18:06:59 (EST)

Margarita--hiya sweets! Just wanted to clarify something from my post. I never thought the dirt-worm dictator SHOULD have committed suicide...I'm just surprised he didn't. Not even "suicide by soldier." At least then, he would have been a martyr which is somewhat honorable. If he would have just put up a little fight, that would have been the end of it. Also, I really don't know how much information he'll part with. He has always lied, and he is a nut, so I really don't think he would start telling the truth now. I saw on CNN that his interviewers have described him as "sarcastic" and a "wise ass." The guy is either past shame, or is really that arrogant and thinks the world will negotiate with him. He'd sing like a canary (probably) if subjected to some of HIS favorite forms of torture, but he is smart enough to realize that the U.S. will abide by the Geneva Convention. Even if he talked now, I wouldn't believe a word that lunatic says.

angela
Monday, December 15, 2003 at 17:12:17 (EST)

I just had to add my two cents: let me start by saying I am gleeful about the capture of Hussein - I even added into my daughter's baby book in the timeline section. However, I am not upset that he didn't kill himself for a few reasons: one it is a sin and it is an easy way out (although the man may have many other sins on him, I'll leave that to God to judge) so I personally feel that him not commiting suicide is not a cowardly act (although he didn't even try to fight) and two, he is much more useful to us alive than he is dead.
Anyhow, that's just my take on it.
Now I have to go throw away two pans of baklava that didn't set up right....
Margarita
Monday, December 15, 2003 at 15:42:19 (EST)

Sadaam didn't kill himself because he is a coward. Funny how he can torture and murder so many other people without the blink of an eye, but when it comes to himself, even Hitler had more guts! One might think he would like to join his sons down under and be considered a "martyr" by those much more ignorant.

LH---YOU HERE? I have an Ohio question...
cameragirl
Monday, December 15, 2003 at 15:19:02 (EST)

I believe they found a mass grave of thousands last week, if that isnt mass destruction, I dont know what is. I also think that it was great for the people of Irag to see him living with rats & mice, nothing to eat, I wonder how he liked it? Living in that hole across the street where his palace stands. I too believe that he, in some way, had something to do with 9/11 also.
Lyne
Monday, December 15, 2003 at 09:34:48 (EST)

Good Morning All!
First, even if the coalition forces cannot find the WMD, it does not mean they are not there. Hussein gassed the Kurds, and is guilty of at least THAT mass murder, so there was WMD at one time. Where are they? Maybe the big man will give up the information.
I too was very surprised they took him alive. He had a pistol, so why he did not commit suicide is a mystery. Maybe the "Butcher of Bagdad" is really what he looks like--a dirty, smelly, cowardly, old man. He was actually arrogant enough to say "I am Saddam Hussein, I am the President of Iraq, and I am willing to negotiate"! At least his pyschopathic, toadie's of sons had the "onions" to go out fighting. Maybe we will never know. I think it is great for the people to see him coming out of a dirt hole and being subjected to a medical exam by an American...that is just rich! :)
TC all! This is indeed a good day.
LH--glad to "see" you here!
angela
Monday, December 15, 2003 at 09:15:08 (EST)

THANK GOD, Saddam is captured! I thought it was great watching them check him for head lice and all on tv, gee, how embarrasing for him huh? I also find it intersting how he forces everyone to fight to their death for him, yet he doesnt fire a shot or put up any resistance? As for Stephanie, you my dear, need a good smack to knock some sense into you!
Lyne
Monday, December 15, 2003 at 08:48:13 (EST)

AS AN IRAQI LIVING IN AMERICA, I WOULD LIKE TO SAY WELL DONE!

WE HAVE SUFFERED ALOT, AND WE JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO RETURN TO OUR COUNTRY, AND BUILD A BETTER FUTURE.

WHO SAID CHRISTIANS HATED MUSLIMS, YOU WILL HELP US TO HAVE A GREAT MUSLIM COUNTRY.

I WOULD PERSONALLY LIKE TO THANK THE TROOPS, AS SADDAM, OPPRESSED US, AND DIDNT ALLOW US TO HAVE SHARIAH LAW ACCORDING TO SHIA'S LAW. LIKE MENSA SAID, THANKS, AND NEXT STOP SYRIA!

SOON, WE WILL ALL HAVE SHARIAH AGAIN.

AGAIN THANKS FOR RISKING YOUR LIVES, AND BEING AWAY FROM YOUR FAMILIES, TO FIGHT THE ENEMY OF ISLAM.

A BIG THANKS!
MONA
Monday, December 15, 2003 at 05:14:06 (EST)

Mensa-

I agree with you; however, you and I both know that the troops are going to be there for a while until the country is stabilized. Several of the soldiers here are being deployed (the base almost looks like a town of only singles mothers and fathers.

We minister to these people, and the heart break and anxiety is too much for man, but nothing for God. I am so proud of all of our soliders and can't wait until my family members are returned to their spouses and children. They have a R & R program (soldiers return home for about a week or so).

My husband was away for 9 months, after September 11th and I barely saw him in 2002 and 2003. He missed both of our daughters birthdays (almost 3 now), our annivesary, and holidays. Nevertheless, I am grateful to say that we have family members that were apart of history and have volunteered to be so. The spouses and children suffers greatly through deployment and the hardest thing to do is to explain to a child that daddy or mommy is a hero; they don't care what daddy or mom is doing for the country, they only want them home.

Sorry for the rambling.

I BIG WHOA for the soldiers!
Shawanda
Monday, December 15, 2003 at 04:58:36 (EST)

Good now the Iraqi's can have their Islamic Republic of Iraqi, God bless America, and God Bless our troops!

Now bring them home!!!!!!!!

The Iraqi's can get their day in court, and run THEIR country as they see fit.
Mensa
Monday, December 15, 2003 at 01:58:02 (EST)

Stephanie-LITTLE GIRL! You should get your a$$ out of America for you do not deserve to live here. I think you should go jump into an alligator swamp in FL to save the world from having to listen to more crap that comes out of your mouth. I pray you don't have kids. I assume you don't have a husband, for none would put up with your ignorance.
oscar
Monday, December 15, 2003 at 00:32:51 (EST)

Stephanie ~ this is not a smart aleck question - it is sincere: is English your native language? i was just curious because some of your verb placement and other sentence structure is similar to what I have seen from people who speak English as a second language... notheless you have brought up some interesting points. No, weapons of mass destruction have not been found YET - doesn't mean they are not there. I heard something interesting today which, if proven to be correct, would link Hussein to Bin Laden / 9/11 and if that is true I don't care if there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq or not, it doesn't mean that he was not a terrorist and a threat to peaceful nations and the US in particular.
Margarita
Monday, December 15, 2003 at 00:13:03 (EST)

STEPHANIE: Why don't you take your LIBERAL DEMORAT (yes I said DEMO-RAT)ASS to someplace like Canada where you can be wishy-washy and "not take sides"...meanwhile someone is climbing up your exhaust pipe with terroism. OPEN YOUR EYES....SADDAM WAS THE WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION - HOW MANY CIVILIANS DID HER MURDER? 10's of thousands!! How much more MASS DESTRUCTION do you need for proof??
Proud American
Sunday, December 14, 2003 at 23:47:12 (EST)

Maybe a great day for Iraqi's, but none the least for America. No Weapons of Mass Destruction, A Trial for Saddam will mean what our government has been up too. We didnt go to war for Saddam, remember Colin Powell, we went because, we were led to believe he was a threat to the so called free world.
I just read on news, that no weapons with all the search has not been found. He wasn't involved in 9/11, so where do that put us? Sure we can be happy he is caught for the Iraqi people, but that was their business, as is now. What will come out from now will be interesting. If it took 600 soliders to search him, one makes you think all the news we get in the USA, cant be believable. What about his leading the insurgents, his so called loyalist, we need to wake up, and start looking at the pages within the book, not the books covers.
Since now our government is now telling the truth, why Iraqi and not Saudi? No Iraqi's were involved in 9/11, but according to them, 19 highjackers were Saudi. What is not our government telling us? I may feel happiness for the Iraqi people, but as far as America in Iraq, now we will see what the real reason for going there is? If our troops don't come home soon, then it will all be before us, all we have to do is open our eyes.

stephanie
Sunday, December 14, 2003 at 22:16:43 (EST)

I was standing in the back of the Chapel when one of our Deacons came and told my husband and I that Sadaam was captured. I think that my husband got excited about it because his sermon was more enthusiastic this Sunday!

Shawanda
Sunday, December 14, 2003 at 20:29:48 (EST)

I didn't hear about Sadaam until this morning when I went to church. I guess a day late is better than a week or two.

Anyway.....where is all that money that they found going?

What about Bin Laden....when will they find him?

Good job to all of those who contributed to capturing this *hermit*. We are all very proud of you.

LH~ I hope everything gets better for you. I am glad to see that you are posting a little again. take care
sc and the baby
Sunday, December 14, 2003 at 19:02:12 (EST)

OOPS! 2004!!!!
Kerri
Sunday, December 14, 2003 at 11:28:41 (EST)

WOOHOO! SADAAM is captured! Did you all see the people of Iraq dancing in the streets? Sort of puts the anti-war people in their place don't you think? I do find it pretty interesting how Dan Rather speaks on the great news like speaking of the 9/11 tragedy...he speaks as though he is disappointed or something...So I turn on FOX news and get the smiles from the reporters and cheers. Interesting how the media plays such a huge part in how people think...
CONGRATULATIONS to our US FORCES and a huge THANK YOU!
BUSH 2204!!!!!!
Kerri
Sunday, December 14, 2003 at 11:28:01 (EST)

RILEY'S MOM..

i was wondering the same thing! that evil creature has finally been captured...

now will they find bin laden?

hope everyone is good and getting ready for christmas!!!

LH you know you always have a friend in me, email me if you wanna chat ok??

talk soon all!
j-mo
Sunday, December 14, 2003 at 10:54:49 (EST)

I am surprised nobody has mentioned the capture of Saddam here yet!
Riley's Mom
Sunday, December 14, 2003 at 10:20:37 (EST)

Once a pediphile, always a pediphile!!He could have been put away ten years ago and should have been!I also think they should lock up the parents of the boy accusing MJ of this and throw away the keys!!This is a perfect example of what evil money can create!!Those poor innocent children..
A>Hyde
email: bdanhyde@yahoo.com
Sunday, December 14, 2003 at 04:21:55 (EST)

Sorry I have been MIA since my strange post awhile back! To everyone that responded...yes, I have been messing with a severe case of TMJ...actually since June of this year! It has just gotten to the point where they can longer do much for me except a possible surgery to "break my jaw" and I'm fighting with them on that one! Now my doctor who has been prescribing me my much needed pain medication is starting to give up on me too and without it I fear I will "loose it" all together! I thought I had made it perfectly clear that I wished to remain on it(vicoprophen)until after the holidays at least when I can take the time to look for a Pain Management center and focus on things abit better! I'm just having a rough time of it right now and I really shouldn't have been drinking a glass of Baileys with all the meds I am on...but I did...and the result was depression and my strange post! LOL!

I love reading all of your posts here...think I'll stay outta' this one though! I do wish iparenting would change the topic soon!!!

Hope everyone is enjoying the holidays!!! TC all!
LH
Sunday, December 14, 2003 at 01:16:47 (EST)

Danielle - I find it hard to believe that he has been "set up" by so many different accusers (are you aware that over the last 12 years or so there have been at least 5 separate allegations?) Maybe it is a just a conspiracy because we are all jealous of this philanthropic "eccentric" fan. Please. Bleccccchhhk!!
Cherokee
Saturday, December 13, 2003 at 22:45:44 (EST)

As an answer to your question about Michael Jacksons allegation charges, I myself do not believe they are true. A person as kind and caring as he, helping children around the world doing such a thing just doesn't make sense. I believe it is a set up. A lot of people over the years have thought him to be eccentric which he is a little. If it is a set up then it is a terrible thing to do to a person because he will never be able to recover from that. If the allegations are true and he did do such a thing then I hope they do put him in jail, but I can't imagine such a kind person doing so. Even now I would trust my kids with Michael. May God be with Michael Jackson.
Danielle
email: michaeljs_forever_invincible_fan@yahoo.com
Saturday, December 13, 2003 at 21:26:34 (EST)

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